Why can't I defeat Yemen as Saudi Arabia?

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NeomerArcana

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I'm new to HOI4 but played HOI3 for about... 1 million hours. I like HOI4 to pick a random country, and then for me to have a go at doing something for that country. Because it's war, this usually involves taking over neighbours.

With this in mind, I am Saudi Arabia. I've tried two 1936 games now, but cannot defeat Yemen. They are my first target, they are the smallest of my neighbours and should be quite weak.

On the first attempt, I ran through the construction/infrastructure focuses, and then peacefully transitioned to Fascism via the political focuses. I made sure my infantry weapons were up to date, and my divisions had artillery battalions, and engineer support. I had a few cavalry/light-tank divisions as well. I predicted that the Yemen forces would have only infantry. They blocked my initial incursion, and then managed to push me back into my own lands until I was sure to lose.

I did notice some supply issues in the western side of Saudi Arabia / Yemen. This seemed to be a bit of a bottleneck for my troops. I also noticed that as expected, Yemen's military was infantry, but their piercing was maybe out-striping my light armour.

So okay, I mustn't have done that right. I've learned and will try again. On my second attempt, I focused on politic focuses to get Fascism quickly, so I could declare war before they'd had much time to do anything. Then I worked through the construction tree to get free infra and factory output. I also built a railway from the capital to the supply depot on the western border, expecting that will help with supply.

I didn't use any tanks, and instead focused on up to date infantry and artillery. Once again, Yemen defeated me. But I noticed that the UK... "gave" them the territory the UK held between Yemen and Oman. I don't know why that happened. But because of this war, my own workers got uppity, I think because of my conscription laws, and I had to deal with strikes and eventually a civil war. So failure again.

The railway seemed to help with supply, but I noticed that as soon as my troops are in enemy territory, they were no longer supplied. Maybe I don't understand how supply works. I motorised the capital's supply depot and built trucks as well, but I'm not sure if that did anything.

Again, Yemen just had infantry, but my men just couldn't defeat them. What am I missing? I don't think armour is a solution as I've got no iron. CAS maybe? But again, I'm not sure how much I can build. Do I need mountain troops? Motorised, or mechanised?
 
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Chances are your supply was awful, because of a massive lack of supply hubs in the area. So your troops are essentially worthless.

If not, get tactical bombers or CAS if they can reach. Armies of mostly infantry pretty much do no damage to each other in a low supply area. So the real battle deciding damage comes from the airforce.

Unfortunately thats the answer to like 90% of the combat in this game. Check supply, dominate the air. Tanks probably arent worth the cost for your environment.

Railways do nothing but connect supply hubs, they dont provide supply themself, and supply hub range is pretty limited. From Saudi Arabias closest supply hub you probably cant supply your troops even with max trucks.

Your best bet is to build a dock right next to your border with Yemen to supply your troops via convoy. You could in theory build another supply hub but theyre absurdly expensive
 
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Viktor BM

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1) it is necessary to build a port right on the border with Yemen and run a railway from the capital to it.Make an airfield there.
2) attack by mountain divisions, template 6 mountain rifles + shovel + artillery in support
(not only by mountain divisions, but also by them in the 1st turn.) and of course, before the attack, make a breakthrough plan.
3) use assault aircraft to support the attack.
4) attack as early as possible. until the 39th year, when many divisions will be created in Yemen.
 
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TheMeInTeam

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Chances are your supply was awful, because of a massive lack of supply hubs in the area. So your troops are essentially worthless.

If not, get tactical bombers or CAS if they can reach. Armies of mostly infantry pretty much do no damage to each other in a low supply area. So the real battle deciding damage comes from the airforce.

Unfortunately thats the answer to like 90% of the combat in this game. Check supply, dominate the air. Tanks probably arent worth the cost for your environment.

Railways do nothing but connect supply hubs, they dont provide supply themself, and supply hub range is pretty limited. From Saudi Arabias closest supply hub you probably cant supply your troops even with max trucks.

Your best bet is to build a dock right next to your border with Yemen to supply your troops via convoy. You could in theory build another supply hub but theyre absurdly expensive
this is all good advice, but note yemen is mountain spam too, so you will want to design divisions that aren't too gimped there.

in game terms, you are much better served hitting an easier target that gives you either puppet manpower or more factories when you win, and taking yemen for forming arabia later.
 
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Viktor BM

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this is all good advice, but not yemen is mountain spam too, so you will want to design divisions that aren't too gimped there.

in game terms, you are much better served hitting an easier target that gives you either puppet manpower or more factories when you win, and taking yemen for forming arabia later.
The fact that Yemen is not a particularly important target is a fact.But the fact that there should be no special problems with it is also a fact.In the end, you can just lure out their troops by surrendering a couple of territories in the desert, and capture their capital. And the question itself was exactly how to capture it. and not why)) :)
 
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NeomerArcana

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Thanks all. I'm still hesitant to use air due to resource constraints, and I have a feeling mountaineers may not be enough.

I will try to lure them out into the desert, and then cut them off.
 
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this is all good advice, but note yemen is mountain spam too, so you will want to design divisions that aren't too gimped there.

in game terms, you are much better served hitting an easier target that gives you either puppet manpower or more factories when you win, and taking yemen for forming arabia later.
Good point
Thanks all. I'm still hesitant to use air due to resource constraints, and I have a feeling mountaineers may not be enough.

I will try to lure them out into the desert, and then cut them off.
The resource restraint actually isnt as bad it first appears. Basically just put one factory on CAS and it will make a pretty big difference in battle, the loss in production efficiency from not having aluminum/rubber is noticeable but not game breaking…even just 50 CAS against an opponent with no air force can turn the tide from unwinnable to not that big of a problem
 
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NeomerArcana

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mountaineer with enough planning bonus can probably brute force with micro. but you might indeed be better off giving up some territory deliberately then doing pin + runby (or naval invasion)
Unfortunately the Saudi's start with no naval forces. My understanding is that you need naval forces to provide naval supremacy ahead of a naval invasion?

With my last two attempts, I've had enough time before becoming fascist and justifying a war goal to be able to get my infantry and artillery up to date plus engineers (along with construction techs). So I think I can probably stretch into developing mountaineers too prior to declaring war. What I think I'll do is lure them out of Yemen into my own desert provinces, and use mountaineers to stay in my own south-western mountains, wait, and cut them off. My thinking is that the extra movement speed in the mountains will end it all a bit quicker. I just hope that they bypass my mountains and take the bait in the desert.
 

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I'm new to HOI4 but played HOI3 for about... 1 million hours. I like HOI4 to pick a random country, and then for me to have a go at doing something for that country. Because it's war, this usually involves taking over neighbours.

With this in mind, I am Saudi Arabia. I've tried two 1936 games now, but cannot defeat Yemen. They are my first target, they are the smallest of my neighbours and should be quite weak.

On the first attempt, I ran through the construction/infrastructure focuses, and then peacefully transitioned to Fascism via the political focuses. I made sure my infantry weapons were up to date, and my divisions had artillery battalions, and engineer support. I had a few cavalry/light-tank divisions as well. I predicted that the Yemen forces would have only infantry. They blocked my initial incursion, and then managed to push me back into my own lands until I was sure to lose.

I did notice some supply issues in the western side of Saudi Arabia / Yemen. This seemed to be a bit of a bottleneck for my troops. I also noticed that as expected, Yemen's military was infantry, but their piercing was maybe out-striping my light armour.

So okay, I mustn't have done that right. I've learned and will try again. On my second attempt, I focused on politic focuses to get Fascism quickly, so I could declare war before they'd had much time to do anything. Then I worked through the construction tree to get free infra and factory output. I also built a railway from the capital to the supply depot on the western border, expecting that will help with supply.

I didn't use any tanks, and instead focused on up to date infantry and artillery. Once again, Yemen defeated me. But I noticed that the UK... "gave" them the territory the UK held between Yemen and Oman. I don't know why that happened. But because of this war, my own workers got uppity, I think because of my conscription laws, and I had to deal with strikes and eventually a civil war. So failure again.

The railway seemed to help with supply, but I noticed that as soon as my troops are in enemy territory, they were no longer supplied. Maybe I don't understand how supply works. I motorised the capital's supply depot and built trucks as well, but I'm not sure if that did anything.

Again, Yemen just had infantry, but my men just couldn't defeat them. What am I missing? I don't think armour is a solution as I've got no iron. CAS maybe? But again, I'm not sure how much I can build. Do I need mountain troops? Motorised, or mechanised?
You need to have supply for your army to be effective bud. Also tanks with no supply? Lol
 

Viktor BM

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Unfortunately the Saudi's start with no naval forces. My understanding is that you need naval forces to provide naval supremacy ahead of a naval invasion?

With my last two attempts, I've had enough time before becoming fascist and justifying a war goal to be able to get my infantry and artillery up to date plus engineers (along with construction techs). So I think I can probably stretch into developing mountaineers too prior to declaring war. What I think I'll do is lure them out of Yemen into my own desert provinces, and use mountaineers to stay in my own south-western mountains, wait, and cut them off. My thinking is that the extra movement speed in the mountains will end it all a bit quicker. I just hope that they bypass my mountains and take the bait in the desert.
AI is stupid and with a 99% probability it will go to capture territories in a crowd. the main thing is not to give him the mountains and your railroad, so as not to lose supplies. (advice about the port and the road to it is still important). About the attack from the sea. In Yemen, this does not make sense, there is a port in the mountains with very big disadvantages when attacked. but for understanding, if a country does not have a fleet (which we are attacking), then in order to create an advantage before landing, it is enough for us to have 1 of any ship. or a submarine.
I recommend Iraq as the 2nd target. Oman can generally be captured at any time there is only 1 division.
 

TheMeInTeam

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Unfortunately the Saudi's start with no naval forces. My understanding is that you need naval forces to provide naval supremacy ahead of a naval invasion?
given yemen's navy, you just need to have taken naval dockyard focus roughly by the time you start justifying the war and produce one bathtub submarine. they don't have anything, so 1 sub = enough superiority.

if you are doing naval dockyard focus as civil war fires, you can actually have six dockyards in 1936...way more than you'd need for this.

I recommend Iraq as the 2nd target. Oman can generally be captured at any time there is only 1 division.
best first target is almost certainly netherlands as usual, but i wouldn't blame people for getting tired of that/not wanting to do it over and over as every generic minor that isn't landlocked
 

NeomerArcana

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I think I don't quite understand the supply mechanics.

In HOI3, things were supplied according to the infrastructure and ports. So, supplies eventually got there, but just maybe not enough and maybe not much is left by the time it gets to the front.

My understanding of HOI4 is that supplies come from Ports or Depots. The infra determines how much supply flows. The railroads determine whether supplies flow from the capital to the other depots (is that right?). Motorisation of the depot determines how far the supplies will go?

So... I HAVE to build either ports or depots, AND connect them by railroad, in order to supply my moving front?
 

Viktor BM

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I think I don't quite understand the supply mechanics.

In HOI3, things were supplied according to the infrastructure and ports. So, supplies eventually got there, but just maybe not enough and maybe not much is left by the time it gets to the front.

My understanding of HOI4 is that supplies come from Ports or Depots. The infra determines how much supply flows. The railroads determine whether supplies flow from the capital to the other depots (is that right?). Motorisation of the depot determines how far the supplies will go?

So... I HAVE to build either ports or depots, AND connect them by railroad, in order to supply my moving front?
Yes, port = supply center. And it should be connected to the supply center in the capital. Also, the railway has 5 levels, its level depends on how much cargo can pass through it. Port levels also affect how much cargo it can transport further by sea. Trucks increase the feed radius relative to the feed node.(if you decide to supply the army with trucks). They can also supply ...transport aircraft must also be transferred, air supply is provided on request. at the moment, this is being violated by the developers, and 300 aircraft barely supply 5 divisions.

All your supplies are delivered ONLY from the capital. And lend-lease comes ONLY to your capital.
 

NeomerArcana

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Yes, port = supply center. And it should be connected to the supply center in the capital. Also, the railway has 5 levels, its level depends on how much cargo can pass through it. Port levels also affect how much cargo it can transport further by sea. Trucks increase the feed radius relative to the feed node.(if you decide to supply the army with trucks). They can also supply ...transport aircraft must also be transferred, air supply is provided on request. at the moment, this is being violated by the developers, and 300 aircraft barely supply 5 divisions.

All your supplies are delivered ONLY from the capital. And lend-lease comes ONLY to your capital.
Many thanks! This explains my supply issues.
 

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Even playing with majors, i get trouble when uncareless atack yemen , the supply is very punishing here.

- The less powerful minor i played in middle east was iraq, i imagine saudi arabia is even more rough.
- The Support Artillery Battallion is game changer for minors, the template u use have it?
- Tanks is a waste in middle east.
- I played Iran, Iraq, and Turkey on middle east, i learned that have enough civil industry for supply hubs or railways is more important than fancy weapons.
- theres a political decision that boost supply hub construction by 300%.
- if u tired of war, u can play "oil king" in middle east, play iran capture iraq and saudi arabia, build some refineries. lots of countries will come to buy rubber and oil.
- microcountries like yemen, take long time to build enough troops.
 

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I think I don't quite understand the supply mechanics.

In HOI3, things were supplied according to the infrastructure and ports. So, supplies eventually got there, but just maybe not enough and maybe not much is left by the time it gets to the front.

My understanding of HOI4 is that supplies come from Ports or Depots. The infra determines how much supply flows. The railroads determine whether supplies flow from the capital to the other depots (is that right?). Motorisation of the depot determines how far the supplies will go?

So... I HAVE to build either ports or depots, AND connect them by railroad, in order to supply my moving front?
Depots and ports connected to the capital provide supply, the railroad connection to the capital determines how much, and infrastructure and motorization determine how far it can travel from the depots. Ports also provide less supply than depots I believe, but probably still adequate for your needs and significantly cheaper.
 

Viktor BM

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Depots and ports connected to the capital provide supply, the railroad connection to the capital determines how much, and infrastructure and motorization determine how far it can travel from the depots. Ports also provide less supply than depots I believe, but probably still adequate for your needs and significantly cheaper.
I didn't notice the difference.It seems to be the same thing.In any case, the port will be enough for the 1st Army.