Why cannot I attack an INDEPENDENT when I have claim on province??

[MasterofMagic]

I thought independent meant just that? There is a county in the water next to me Oland (I am Gotland) that I sent my diplomat to gaing claim on. I gets it, pays my 100 prestige and all that and now I can't attack it directly....? Why? Now in CK1 you could attack independents as I recall as they pretty much became like Pagans except for needing a claim to attack them. Can I ask the Pope for permission to attack them and gain my claim and get the province without having to declare war on Ostergotland? Is funny because I am also DUKE of that area.

 

[Maizel]

Do you have levies raised? Are crown laws in your realm too high?

The tool tip should tell you why you can't.

 

[sbr]

Is the count himself independant or is he part of an independant Duchy?

 

[MasterofMagic]

Do you have levies raised? Are crown laws in your realm too high?

The tool tip should tell you why you can't.

The blocking tooltip says: Countess Inga of Oland must be our Liege or Vassal of our Liege

But, she's INDEPENDENT.....so we can't attack independents now? lol

She is part of the Duchy of Ostergotland which is part of Sweden who's liege is the King of Sweden. I don't see anything that tells me the Duchy of Ostergotland is independent as I CAN attack it I guess because I have a claim on Oland, but, Oland is independent so it doesn't make sense that I can't attack an independent vassal?? Or does it?

 

[Maizel]

The blocking tooltip says: Countess Inga of Oland must be our Liege or Vassal of our Liege

But, she's INDEPENDENT.....so we can't attack independents now? lol

Yes we can. I can just fine.

You just can't, apparently.

 

[unmerged(451758)]

I have had this EXACT same problem with Oland as Gotland. This is even when a pagan was count of Oland.

CK1 had a very clear-cut system of CB's.
I like this complex version better, but there are still some oddities every now and again.

 

[Hyzhenhok]

The blocking tooltip says: Countess Inga of Oland must be our Liege or Vassal of our Liege

But, she's INDEPENDENT.....so we can't attack independents now? lol

She is part of the Duchy of Ostergotland which is part of Sweden who's liege is the King of Sweden. I don't see anything that tells me the Duchy of Ostergotland is independent as I CAN attack it I guess because I have a claim on Oland, but, Oland is independent so it doesn't make sense that I can't attack an independent vassal?? Or does it?

You're not being very clear here. You're saying she is both independent and a part of the Duchy of Ostergotland?

Edit: loading up in 1066, the County of Oland is not independent. You have to attack her liege, the Duke of Ostergotland..

 

[tanathos]

The blocking tooltip says: Countess Inga of Oland must be our Liege or Vassal of our Liege

But, she's INDEPENDENT.....so we can't attack independents now? lol

She is part of the Duchy of Ostergotland which is part of Sweden who's liege is the King of Sweden. I don't see anything that tells me the Duchy of Ostergotland is independent as I CAN attack it I guess because I have a claim on Oland, but, Oland is independent so it doesn't make sense that I can't attack an independent vassal?? Or does it?

I have no idea what you're saying exactly as the phrasing is a little convoluted BUT, from what I can tell, you're saying that Oland is vassal to the duchy of Ostergotland? If that's the case, then Olan is not independant, as they are a vassal. You have to declare war on the highest available liege.

 

[unmerged(489005)]

I have the same question as the poster. Here's my scenario:

I picked the King of France 1066. From the beginning there was a notification saying I could press the claim for the county of Vivarais. Vivarais is controled by a Count, his liege is the Duke of Provence, and his liege is the Kaiser- in Nassau. When I go to declare war the option is gray. All the tool tips are green and good to go but one with a red X "___ of Vivarais is Independent."

I next ran into the same text explanation when trying to declare war in Florez, controlled by a Count, who also controls Lyon, directly under the Kaiser- after my Chancellor had successfully fabricated the claim.

 

[Shuriken]

Independent means that the owner of the title is not a vassal to anyone. So Olan is not independent if its count is a vassal of a Duke. Vivarais is not independent if it is the vassal of the Duke of Provence.

Independent means no liege.

If you have a casus belli, you have to declare war on the liege (and if that liege has a liege, then declare on that liege). The only exception to this is when pressing claims on provinces who have the same liege as you.

 

[MajorHeartfire]

There are some oddities with declaring war, but are you sure when you declared war on Lyon that it was under the HRE? Sometimes weird things happen that lead to a lot of independents in Italy.... At least I have seen that...

When you click on a person, their liege will always be shown in their character information. I've got a zillion hours in CK2 and I always forget to look for the liege.

 

[unmerged(489005)]

Yeah I'm sure, that's how I found out who their lieges were. Maybe it's a bug displaying the wrong reason I can't attack? Perhaps the tool tip is intended to say something different.

 

[Garak]

I have the same question as the poster. Here's my scenario:

I picked the King of France 1066. From the beginning there was a notification saying I could press the claim for the county of Vivarais. Vivarais is controled by a Count, his liege is the Duke of Provence, and his liege is the Kaiser- in Nassau. When I go to declare war the option is gray. All the tool tips are green and good to go but one with a red X "___ of Vivarais is Independent."

I next ran into the same text explanation when trying to declare war in Florez, controlled by a Count, who also controls Lyon, directly under the Kaiser- after my Chancellor had successfully fabricated the claim.

In this case, you would have to declare war on the Emperor. You always have to attack the person at the top of the feudal chain. The only exception is when you're a vassal attacking another vassal of the same liege. (for example, the Duke of Lombardia attacking the Duchess of Tuscana - they're both direct vassals of the Emeperor), and even in that case, you can't do that once crown authority hits medium.

The blocking tooltip says: Countess Inga of Oland must be our Liege or Vassal of our Liege

But, she's INDEPENDENT.....so we can't attack independents now? lol

She is part of the Duchy of Ostergotland which is part of Sweden who's liege is the King of Sweden. I don't see anything that tells me the Duchy of Ostergotland is independent as I CAN attack it I guess because I have a claim on Oland, but, Oland is independent so it doesn't make sense that I can't attack an independent vassal?? Or does it?

"Independant vassal" is a contradiction. Either you're independant, or you're a vassal. You can't be both. If I'm reading you correctly, the Coutness of Oland is a vassal of the Duke of of Ostergotland, who is a vassal of the King of Sweden. I'm not positive what your situation is. If you're also a vassal of the King of Sweden, you should be able to attack the Ostergotland. UNLESS crown authority is medium or higher, in which case this kind of fighting is prohibited. If you're not a vassal of Sweden, then you'll have to declare war on the King himself.

These rules for declaring war are universal. If there's a crusade for Jerusalem and it's controlled by some random nobody sheik who happens to be part of the caliphate, I can't attack him directly. I have to declare war on the Caliph himself and take on all his armies. It works the same here.

 

[unmerged(489005)]

So perhaps it is displaying wrong.. If you fire the game up and start a new game in 1066 w the King of France you start with that de jure claim indicator at the top, go to the Count the and try to declare war- you won't be able to and the reason it says is: "__ of__is independent."

I suppose I understand now that I must go elsewhere to declare, but that tool tip was certainly confusing.

 

[Garak]

So perhaps it is displaying wrong.. If you fire the game up and start a new game in 1066 w the King of France you start with that de jure claim indicator at the top, go to the Count the and try to declare war- you won't be able to and the reason it says is: "__ of__is independent."

I suppose I understand now that I must go elsewhere to declare, but that tool tip was certainly confusing.

Yes, it's saying you can't declare war because he's not independant. It's a list of requirements that need to be fulfilled. There's a red X in front of that one to tell you it's a requirement that hasn't been met.

 

[unmerged(489005)]

Yes, it's saying you can't declare war because he's not independant. It's a list of requirements that need to be fulfilled. There's a red X in front of that one to tell you it's a requirement that hasn't been met.

Oooooooohhhhhhhhh...... right *answer hits me in face like bag of wet bags*

This is a hell of game to figure out. Also my knowledge if middle age western feudal workings is a tad... weak. :ninja:

 

[Garak]

Oooooooohhhhhhhhh...... right *answer hits me in face like bag of wet bags*

This is a hell of game to figure out. Also my knowledge if middle age western feudal workings is a tad... weak. :ninja:

Well, it helps that the game does everything that way. If you look at the requirements for enacting decisions, succeeding at ambitions and plots, etc, it's always a list of things which much be true. The requirements you meet have a green check or dot in front of them (don't remember which off-hand), and the ones you don't have a red X. For example, if you go to build a palisade in one of your holdings but you don't have enough money, it'll say "Has at least 50 gold" (or words to that effect), with the red X in front.

 

[unmerged(489005)]

Well, it helps that the game does everything that way. If you look at the requirements for enacting decisions, succeeding at ambitions and plots, etc, it's always a list of things which much be true. The requirements you meet have a green check or dot in front of them (don't remember which off-hand), and the ones you don't have a red X. For example, if you go to build a palisade in one of your holdings but you don't have enough money, it'll say "Has at least 50 gold" (or words to that effect), with the red X in front.

Right right.. thanks a lot for the responses guys, if I had played Paradox stuff before this I'm sure Id be more hip to it.

 

[Garak]

Right right.. thanks a lot for the responses guys, if I had played Paradox stuff before this I'm sure Id be more hip to it.

Yes, once you figure out how they do things, you pick up on these things a lot faster, lol.

 

[Zireael]

Well, it helps that the game does everything that way. If you look at the requirements for enacting decisions, succeeding at ambitions and plots, etc, it's always a list of things which much be true. The requirements you meet have a green check or dot in front of them (don't remember which off-hand), and the ones you don't have a red X. For example, if you go to build a palisade in one of your holdings but you don't have enough money, it'll say "Has at least 50 gold" (or words to that effect), with the red X in front.

This should be included in the official manual...