Why Bio Ascension is Now the Best Path

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Zardnaar

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As the title says.

Generally in 2.2 growth is king and overall guess what path offers the best growth opportunity? This is because of cloning tanks, th ability to add rapid breeders to your species (assuming you don't already have it) and later on the fertile trait. A Xenophile also has the Xeno-Compatibility trait which is all sorts of fun and power (+83% growth rate IIRC w/clone tanks+fertile). As an added bonus lots of buildings add extra society research to the game so when you do adapt your species you can do it a lot quicker and a lot sooner. You can't really specialise individual pops any more but you can specialize planets and break the research up and once you unlock the 2 part of it turning your tech worlds into Erudite worlds tends to speed up the rest of your genetic tampering. Agarian trait is almost overpowered with the policies and decisions to further speed up growth rates. Oh and Hives have that +25% rate built in but can't use the planetary decision.

The other thing putting it over the top is the relative lack of drawbacks relative to the other paths. The other two paths might be more interesting and if you are a Xenophile the micro to tweak all those racers is a pain but worth it. If you are Xenophile however 3/4 of the 1st 4 ascension perks are probably already picked for you as going habitat-masterbuilder-galactic wonders in your 1st 4 (maybe 5 Arcology) ideas is less ideal than in older patches. Pick 1, Bio 1, Xeno compatibility, bio 2 into Ecumenopolis where you can dump all the excess pops is very good.

Psionics.
Well they made breaching the shroud cheaper but unlike the other paths psionics doesn't buff your growth rate in any signifigant way. If you are creative you can use the raiding doctrine using your superior admirals but its a wash as the other paths can do the same thing. Its also hard to roll this tech any time soon unless you are a spiritualist and if you are spiritualist if you use bots you get less tech. Best case scenario I can think of is something like a mechanist no spiritual empire lucksacking the psionic tech. As an added bonus Zro is useful/needed and apart from nanites seems to be the rarest resource in the game.

Psionics doesn't outright such but without droids if you are spiritualists you really notice the smaller population growth. Inward perfection and Xenophobe can mitigate this to an extent but you can also take those ideas as bio ascension. You're still not getting the synthetic and fertile+ cloning tanks+ whatever else growth rates though. That growth rate is often high enough where excess population can rival building speed to filling up a ring world or Ecumenpopolis is a lot slower. Pops are power (and research and unity and and and....). Expansion via pointy stick diplomacy seems to be the best option. Psionic admirals and governors are really nice however.

Flesh Is Weak/Synthetic Ascension

The Flesh is Weak is really good, the main downside is that you have to use engineering tech to research it. Engineering is already over loaded with to many good techs essential to run your economy however. That is all the exotic resource techs, the +10% minerals one, the ore purification ones etc. And unlike bio ascension you tend to have less engineering research even with the natural engineers trait. To make things worse droids only take up 0.5 housing synthetics take up 1 housing so you might overload your planets when you do it. You can prepare for this and the advantage is you get very rapid population growth. Spending 5-10 years twice over on the most over stressed tree there is is not that much fun. You can do it but generally you hit physic repeatables 1st followed by sociology then engineering so its not to unusual to be deep into physics repeatables for 20% + boost to weapons/fire rate and engineers have to make a decision about missiles vs kinetics. You can be 15-30 years+ behind in a scenario where late game techs can be done in 17-24 months.

However synthetics seem to have lost their 20% bonus to resources. At least its not in the synthetic description or the wiki (correct me if I am wrong) and the energy needs of your empire jump massively although you will likely have surplus food. More pops you have the more energy you need and you might have to take a diversion into Galactic Wonders in order to produce enough via Dyson Spheres or Ringworlds. You might be better off delaying your final ascension until later in the game to mitigate the drawbacks but then you are also conceding decades of very high growth rate you can achieve with a bio engineered empire and growth rate is one of the main appeals of synthetic ascension. But there is another problem.

Robo modding however is inefficient compared with bio engineering though and the growth rate can be barely any better than a bio ascended one with all the trimmings but they probably started it earlier so even then you might take a while to catch up. Even then if you want to robo mod your stuff that is an ever bigger delay on top of probably having to convert hundreds of pops to synthetics anyway. Synths eat energy but energy districts produce 8 energy vs 12 for food and there is no equivalent for energy compared with hydroponic farms. You can mitigate this by selling all that excess food but still. As an added bonus bots seem to have lost any inherent bonus they had at producing minerals/20% for synthetics. And its not like you can use hive worlds.
 
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The Boz

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Ever since Zro started appearing reliably (although rarely), Psi has convincingly retaken the 1st spot as the strongest ascension because:
1) no need for multiple costly bio/cyber engineering projects
ii) very strong leader bonuses (and armies, but who cares about those)
c) hilariously powerful Shroud bonuses (if random), coupled with best-in-slot shields
 

Wolfgang I

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There are 3 main problems with synth ascension right now afaik.
1:It will break any empire that did not give synths citizen rights before doing the special project.
2: pop growth is king in 2.2. turning all of your pops into synths if you were growing both normal pops and robots before is like adding a -100% pop growth trait to all of your existing pops. Only a problem if you got no migration treaties though.
3: It makes the Contingency more likely and that crisis is broken because it is incapaple of purging.
 
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Zardnaar

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There are 3 main problems with synth ascension right now afaik.
1:It will break any empire that did not give synths citizen rights before doing the special project.
2: pop growth is king in 2.2. turning all of your pops into synths if you were growing both normal pops and robots before is like adding a -100% pop growth trait to all of your existing pops. Only a problem if you got no migration treaties though.
3: It makes the Contingency more likely and that crisis is broken because it is incapaple of purging.

Synth pops build really fast and if you have another organic race they will grow as well. problem is the planets will pick one of the other and organic pops grow a lot slower than the turbo charged synths. Robot factories keep cranking out robots IIRC.
 

Zardnaar

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Synths kept their 20% bonus: 10% from Synths tech and 10% from the Ascension Perk. Why can't people read?

Did not notice they moved it from the synthetic description. I don't usually bother reading the tech descriptions that much. Still doesn't really fix the time required to get to the pops or the energy cost of the pops either.
]
 

Retry

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Synths kept their 20% bonus: 10% from Synths tech and 10% from the Ascension Perk. Why can't people read?
10% for being synths, so the synth bonus went down from 20% to 10%. Synths going on the Synth Ascension perk get an additional bonus of 10% that wasn't there before which happens to offset the Synth nerf.

Of course, getting back to the original 20% bonus requires:
1.Spending 2 Ascension Perks on the synth path (Flesh->Synth), precluding the use of other ascension perks, especially Bio/Psi Ascensions.
2.Prepping your economy specifically beforehand to not crash once you Synthetically Ascend, including infrastructure for a huge surplus of energy income that you otherwise wouldn't need since your pops are going to go from eating food to energy. And then you need to or should replace food infrastructure since you're not eating anymore, and that's extra management, especially for large empires.
3.It's buggy: You can basically break your entire save it if you forget to switch your AI policy to free from servitude or whatever.

So Synths can get their old bonus back if they go on a very specific track which requires a lot of basework preparation to avoid crashing their entire economy. Otherwise their bonus is halved. So no, Synths haven't "kept" their 20% bonus.
 

meiam89.

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I rarely see it being mentioned, but psionic give you +5% stability building with high crime reduction (no big deal but nice on large planet/ecunopolis). Stability is almost impossible to cap and give you a nice bonus, above a certain population number stability is better than pop growth.
 

Poekel

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Flesh Is Weak/Synthetic Ascension
.
You forgot the most important perk: No more scrolling through a list of 1k different species in your empire.

And it completely counteracts the Worms ethics switch. All you get is a new small faction (5-10%) that will shrink anyway, so the extra worlds and the 10% research bonus are almost for free (at least if you don't want to ever switch ethics as no other faction will be large enough to switch to).
And with a focus on research to get the +age techs fast, you are likely to never have a leader die from old age (in 2.2 even without taking the 20 years+ traits).
You can almost purely concentrate on administration repeatables (2 bio repeatables are completely useless).
 

Yagami913

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I my opinion the ascension perks are balanced if i look ONLY the bonuses. The problem is while bio is easy to use and the player get the full beneficts very quickly, until then psi and synth are slow, hard to use and buggy too.
 

Jiav

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10% for being synths, so the synth bonus went down from 20% to 10%. Synths going on the Synth Ascension perk get an additional bonus of 10% that wasn't there before which happens to offset the Synth nerf.

Of course, getting back to the original 20% bonus requires:
1.Spending 2 Ascension Perks on the synth path (Flesh->Synth), precluding the use of other ascension perks, especially Bio/Psi Ascensions.
2.Prepping your economy specifically beforehand to not crash once you Synthetically Ascend, including infrastructure for a huge surplus of energy income that you otherwise wouldn't need since your pops are going to go from eating food to energy. And then you need to or should replace food infrastructure since you're not eating anymore, and that's extra management, especially for large empires.
3.It's buggy: You can basically break your entire save it if you forget to switch your AI policy to free from servitude or whatever.

So Synths can get their old bonus back if they go on a very specific track which requires a lot of basework preparation to avoid crashing their entire economy. Otherwise their bonus is halved. So no, Synths haven't "kept" their 20% bonus.

keep in mind prior to 2.2 synth ascension granted you the 20% synth bonus AS WELL as your regular pop traits. In 2.2 you only get the synth bonus and your pop traits get removed, its a total nerf. Basically you have to spend an eternity transforming your species into machine pops and afterwards spend an eternity again robo modding your pops into something which is just as a good as your bio pops were before. There is litterally no reason to get synth ascension atm (the bugs aside).
 

Zardnaar

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keep in mind prior to 2.2 synth ascension granted you the 20% synth bonus AS WELL as your regular pop traits. In 2.2 you only get the synth bonus and your pop traits get removed, its a total nerf. Basically you have to spend an eternity transforming your species into machine pops and afterwards spend an eternity again robo modding your pops into something which is just as a good as your bio pops were before. There is litterally no reason to get synth ascension atm (the bugs aside).

Population growth rate is the reason. Not 100 percent sure but I think it's one of the fastest in the game. Xenophile comparability + fertile is kinda close though.

Late game filling up energy ringworlds might be it's use.
 

Jiav

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Population growth rate is the reason. Not 100 percent sure but I think it's one of the fastest in the game. Xenophile comparability + fertile is kinda close though.

Late game filling up energy ringworlds might be it's use.

its only one of the fastest if you use dual growth, otherwise its not. Even with dual growth, bio ascension is competetive when using droids as well. Bio ascension alone gives you 63% growth rating if you take rapid breeders.

Synth growth is only about 9 if you have a primary nexus, before that its slower.
 

Zardnaar

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its only one of the fastest if you use dual growth, otherwise its not. Even with dual growth, bio ascension is competetive when using droids as well. Bio ascension alone gives you 63% growth rating if you take rapid breeders.

Synth growth is only about 9 if you have a primary nexus, before that its slower.

Good to know. I noticed it slot when testing spiritualist without droids.

Fastest growth might be some sort of technocracy bio ascension xenophile mechanist build.
 

Secret Master

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I gotta be honest:

Biological ascension would be better if the way the game automatically sorts jobs for POPs was smarter and if you could designate POPs in certain jobs to receive modification, not just planets.

I was playing a hive mind the other day and created two different subspecies. One designed to be leaders and run complex jobs, the other designed to run menial jobs and be good for armies.

I planned to get around the whole "gene mod entire planets" issue by modding 60% of the empire's POPs to one type and 40% to the other. Then I was resigned to spending 30 minutes resettling POPs. I even stashed 40k energy credits just to pay for the resettlement.

But after I went through and resettled a bunch of POPs, I realized that POPs were still not allocated to jobs correctly. I had leader POPs working farms and worker POPs doing research. It would have taken me another 30 minutes to go through each and every planet, kick everyone out of jobs, then reactivate jobs in a certain order to get roughly the right POPs on the right jobs.

I did some, but finally said to Hell with it. I should have created just one master race, but I'm playing a hive mind that acts like eusocial insects. Specialization of POPs should make sense and be easier. :rolleyes:
 

evilcat

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The instant access to clone vast is a boni, and population growth is important.
What could help when playing Bio or Synthetic ascession path is mild Materialist, with Technocracy civic, and Inteligent+social experts+20lifespan. Add some academic privilage and technologic grants. THis generates a lot of science and modding specie takes 3years not 10years.

It is not about power, but from roleplay value i wish there was bio ascession path tech with living ships hull module. Just extra hull with hull regeneration. To play as zergs.

The other thing would be a special Colossus (if we have Apocalypse DLC) when we can imbue all enemy planets with Nerve stapped. It is something to reward if player collects all DLC to have interesting interaction with different contents, not just separete subsystems.
 

tobias.mb

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I think the ascension paths are quite well balanced now.

Bio: Best growth with Cloning Vats + fertile.
But you end up with worse pops & leaders than the other 2 paths. You can compensate the pop aspect with specialisation, but that's really only an option for authoritarians! Maybe the biggest advantage of bio-ascension is nerve-stapled slaves and Egalitarians or Xenophiles don't get those. Making your own species fertile also isn't as useful, if your planets get flooded with immigrants anyway.

Synths: Best pops. Synths get +20% production (+10% from the synths tech and another +10% from AP); it's 'only' 10% more than everyone else's synths, but you get way more synth than them. "Flesh is Weak" AP also gives +33% robot build speed, which is a bit weaker than clone vats (since robots only have 2 base growth), but in return it doesn't cost you a building slot.
Only real downsides is, that you need to spend a ton of engineering on the cyborg & snyth projects; and engineering is already the most limited reasearch field. You also need to get Bio pops from somewhere else after snyth ascension; which is annoying for Authoritarians and especially Xenophobes since those bio pops will out-grow your synths. Another "hidden" disadvantage is, that you can't use brain slugs (and those are quite good.)

Psi: Best leaders and the only way to get a truly immortal leader. Also insanely good for stability. +5 stab from governors and another +5 stab from psi-corps. And since temples produce amenities, it's also easier to maintain high amenities for a happiness bonus. It's also the only free (no research project) ascension. Then there's the shroud, which can give you insane bonuses. It is random, but if you use a 20% fire rate shroud boon to attack your most dangerous rival, they're in for a nasty surprise. And the shroud pacts are almost broken strong. Lastly you (eventually) get psi-jump drives, prerecog. interface, and psi-shields which are all best in slot.
It has a downside of no pop growth bonuses (unless you make a pact with the composer of strands, but even that is weaker than the other ascension paths). However in reality slow pop growth is more a spiritualist (no robots) problem than a psi ascension problem. You are only losing out on a +33% bonus from clone vats or Flesh is Weak.

For me it's like this: Spiritualist -> Psi ascension; Egalitarian or Xenophile -> Synth; Authoritarian or Xenophobe -> Bio.
 

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Psionic leaders are easy to get though as Racket pops are pretty common.

As a hive mind, I ran bio ascension, then conquered the Spiritualist FE.

Got plenty of psionic leaders that way (if I wanted them). :)