Why armies cost minerals instead of alloys?

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emattosalves

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Its dont make sense, military equipament, even from land warfare, are not simple hardware made with simple industry like i belive what minerals represents. It should cost alloys (advanced resorces, needing high qualifield industry).

What you people thing?
 

The5lacker

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How would such a change lead to better gameplay?
 
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Mcgan

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Because it dates back from before alloys were even a thing, and armies simply don't matter enough to go through the trouble of updating this? That would be my guess anyway.
 
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emattosalves

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In a way, making it cost alloys would make armies start to taking resources that mostly goes to fleets. It would made spam armies a little harder, because even at 2:1 alloys require a additional layer of jobs to be made.
The problem is more of common sense than gameplay reasons, but i understand your question. For me armies are to easy to spam, this would make a little harder.
 
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The5lacker

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In a way, making it cost alloys would make armies start to taking resources that mostly goes to fleets. It would made spam armies a little harder, because even at 2:1 alloys require a additional layer of jobs to be made.
The problem is more of common sense than gameplay reasons, but i understand your question. For me armies are to easy to spam, this would make a little harder.
Right but is spamming armies actually a problem? Would having "taking planets" draw from the same resource pool as "taking systems" cause more problems?

Ground combat in Stellaris is always going to be bad, because in order for the big space-game to function it has to be abstracted down a *lot.* And that's fine, ultimately, because Stellaris is primarily about, you know, space ships, and diplomacy, and grand-scale galaxy-spanning conflicts. Ground Combat's basically just a necessary but vestigial feature meant to make planets harder to take than empty space. Having it be as simple as possible, and not interfere with the actually vaguely in-depth space combat too much, seems to me to be the right call.

As far as actual in-universe reasons, terrestrial construction requires less refined materials, and that includes arming dudes and putting them in a trash can with an engine on it. Ergo, armies just require the abstract "Minerals" resource instead of "Alloys."
 
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Ryika

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"Alloys" in this game essentially just refers to high-tier stuff that is able to withstand a zero-g environment. There are a few exceptions because nothing in this game is 100% without exceptions, but in general, that's what alloys are. So armies using minerals makes sense, since minerals doesn't mean low quality or low tech. It's just not made to be used in space.

I think from a gameplay perspective, armies costing minerals is just fine. If they're too cheap, they could just make them cost more minerals.
 
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guiskj

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They should cost food; "An army marches on it's stomach".
I would rather they continue to cost minerals, but the upkeep of armies either becomes food or has food as at least 50% of it.

Food drastically need more sinks, as it is easily the least valuable resource right now, outside of builds tailored for it.
 
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Pancakelord

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There is no real rule that says alloys are really better than minerals in the game. The cybrex warform costs 250 alloys, its only marginally better than the mega warform which costs 800 minerals. The fact that it's relic spawned unit probably explains the 37.5% discount. Also... strongholds are made out of minerals, and they can resist orbital bombardment. And lets not get in to the existence of menacing BTC ships made from minerals that can go toe-to-toe with alloy-based ships...

I think the only value to be had from armies swapping to alloys from a gameplay perspective, even if they became relatively no more expensive (i.e. 50 minerals became 25 alloys), is that it would make army upkeep in food (bio), minerals (lith) and energy (machine) a little more clear. Though it would have no real effect on army spam, unless you made armies cost like a battleship each lol, army spam is largely a product of:
  1. unlimited army units
    • Cost, relative to economic size is negligible, armies lack an equivalent to naval capacity.
    • Even corvettes get pretty cheap fairly fast in the game, fleet cap/upkeep is a bigger issue if you have a solid economy IMO, until you're building many larger ships like cruisers or battleships.
  2. cliff-edge assaults
    • Either you have enough to wipe the enemy deathstack/planet, or you get wiped.
    • There is no nuance like with shields/armor energy/kinetics etc.
    • All armies boil down to dps [as cost isnt really a factor - even if it increased by quite a bit, and there are no mechanical caps pushing you towards quality over quantity].
 
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namewhichisnottakenyet

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"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein

Clearly, in the high-tech future of Stellaris, these advanced rock based weapon systems have become the backbone of planetary warfare, proving Einstein right once again.
 
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Pancakelord

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these advanced rock based weapon systems
I'm now imagining my very strong alien battle thralls using their bulging muscles and laser-sighted slingshots to bring down undead and warforms. It's Glorious.
1664275032774.png
 
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evilcat

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No alloys, but food as resource for armies would be interesting. As it will give purpose to something which is not minerals.
But it is not very important.

What is important:
Adding policy to define size of armies to:
Brigades (current size)
Divisions (5x current size)
Armies (20x current size)

It would be easier if i could just recruit a couple of armies which are 20x size current instead of spamming recruit button.