Why are Xenophile and Xenophobia Starting Traits?

[The_Meme_Man]

There is a clear distinction between sentient and non-sentient though. What the game currently does not capture is the question whether an alien species would be discovered and recognized as "alive" at all. If we were to discover an alien fungoid or plantoid species would we even recognize it as a lifeform? Or more extreme, if we were to find energy based or silicate based life, would we recognize it as such? This is question that would have to be answered before we can even start to make a distiction between sentient and non-sentient. I think there are numerous factors that would have to be considered. The perception of time is for example one of these, if it takes 100 years for a species to say "hello" meaningful communication would be quite impossible, making a distinction between "something" and "someone" not an issue in the first place.

So xenophile and xenophobe in this sense would be more a question between the "will to explore and find other forms of life" and "fear of the unknown" (making also either of the two meaningful starting ethoses).

Couldn't say it better myself.

 

[The Founder]

I think the better set of ethos that describe Empire relations to other species will be something like introverts\extroverts or open\closed society. Because xenophobia\xenophilia only partially describe variety of possible inter-species relations. Some species may be closed to other for the whole set of reasons aside from fear or hatred. And wanting to accept anyone in\ meddle with everyone affairs isn't exactly a "xenophilia".

But problem is that those "broader" terms doesn't tell you where slavery come into equation. So PDX stick with xenophobes\xenophiles.

We will ahve to wait for banks for multiple reasons:
1. Ethos can shift
2. Slavery will have a influence on Unity gain. If so, that might entirely replace the happiness mechanics.
3. Policy happiness might be rolled into factions. Wich means the game could now check the percentage of slaves vs just the count, to allow for more detailed math.

 

[Jularbo Kizn]

I'm aware that we as humans differ in our views on the likelihood of existence/proper or perceived response to the existence of aliens and first contact with said-aliens, but I think you'd agree that such xenophobic tendencies are more typically resulting from spiritual or political beliefs rather than an inherent fear of/love for/toward the concept of aliens, which is why I think xenophobia/xenopholia are not really appropriate names for core civilization traits. Xenophilia should probably be called something like Natural Explorers and Xenophobia Isolationists based on their general function in-game.

Alternatively they could have xenophobia/xenophobia be event-based rather than an inherent trait? I.E., pops react divergently after first contact, and you can influence them with propaganda campaigns/event choices to try and steer them one way or another or bring them to an equilibrium on the issue.

One conflict of perspective when discussing Stellaris and political/sociological concepts/features is distinguishing your playable faction State apparatus from your race. I.e take North Korea, a state that is built up around xenophobic mechanisms for self preservation whereas the race/ethnicity of Koreans are not necessary xenophobic. Difference in Stellaris is that all pops start With universal ethos which doesn't reflect real world or the race itself, only the starting condition which is the mechanisms Your state apparatus is built up With and in that sense having xenophobic/xenophile as starting ethics make sense. If we played as the race and not specific government then I would agree With Your OP.

 

[gdj]

One conflict of perspective when discussing Stellaris and political/sociological concepts/features is distinguishing your playable faction State apparatus from your race. I.e take North Korea, a state that is built up around xenophobic mechanisms for self preservation whereas the race/ethnicity of Koreans are not necessary xenophobic. Difference in Stellaris is that all pops start With universal ethos which doesn't reflect real world or the race itself, only the starting condition which is the mechanisms Your state apparatus is built up With and in that sense having xenophobic/xenophile as starting ethics make sense. If we played as the race and not specific government then I would agree With Your OP.

You raise a very interesting point here. Theoretically speaking two factions of the same race in two different empires might have xenophobia to each other as well, like the two human empires set as default. I don´t think the game mechanics support this, but perhaps they should.

 

[The Founder]

You raise a very interesting point here. Theoretically speaking two factions of the same race in two different empires might have xenophobia to each other as well, like the two human empires set as default. I don´t think the game mechanics support this, but perhaps they should.

What you are talking about here is Cultural Xenophobia vs Biological Xenophobia. While cultural Xenophobia would be the better approach, it is not implemented at all.
If you play the CoM (or a properly derived faction) the UNS will actually copy your human pops. So no Xenophobia will happen.
I am not sure about the Human Fallen Empire, never had it.

 

[Madzai]

What you are talking about here is Cultural Xenophobia vs Biological Xenophobia

That's "Biological Xenophobia"?

 

[The Founder]

That's "Biological Xenophobia"?

They are a different species. What the game currently runs as Xenophobia.
Vs Cultural Xenophoboa. The stuff we humans have been practicing in lack of a real Biological difference (or if we could image a biological).

The difference between Blorg and Humans is a tiny bit clearer and bigger, then between the imagined "Races" based on skin color or wich language each one speaks.

 

[Avalon8782]

Or, your Human empire could be formed by the Council of Nations with X-Com as its military arm.

 

[Jularbo Kizn]

Well to Draw parallell to Star Wars

Militarist Xenophobic Empire - Galactic Empire
Militrist Xenophile Empire - Mandalorians

You start out as these organizations and the mechanisms for promotions/guiding principles and thats why the xenophobe/xenophile is a starting ethic.