No, it's not just youArguably, a +1 accuracy weapon is more easily understood than a +5% accuracy weapon, but that is perhaps only me; when I see a lone percentage sign I automatically think "percentage of what?"
Why are we using +1/-1 if players see xx% to hit?
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It's always +1 ... except when it's -1, as shown in the screenshot. That's the part that I find confusing.
Arguably, a +1 accuracy weapon is more easily understood than a +5% accuracy weapon, but that is perhaps only me; when I see a lone percentage sign I automatically think "percentage of what?"
See, to me the integers are actually worse: +1 doesn't mean anything without context. With a percentage, you at least know that the range of possible values is between 0 and 100.
It has context. It's a plus one to the dice roll. You don't even need to know what dice or how many are used.
As a new player, how would I know there are dice involved?
Also, and this is the first point I was trying to make above: A +1 accuracy weapon is more accurate, correct? But a -1 shot modifier (e.g. because weapon is arm mounted) is also a good thing, and it's the same basic stat: Accuracy. So it turns out that being on the plus side of 0 isn't always good for the player.
People keep saying that +1 isn't always +5%. I see two issues here. One - all videos thus far shown hit % divisible by 5%. This implies a 20 point scale, in which +/-1 is always worth +/-5%, not the 2-12 scale with it's funky percentages. Two - even if the above is wrong, and there are instances where +1 isn't equal to +5%... it still doesn't matter because the program should be able to *easily* calculate what percentage the change is and swap in whatever number is needed. The +/-1 might be relevant for internal calculations but the end user doesn't need that info, and actual % will be easier for them to grok.
Exactly that is not true. It is worse. Thanks for supporting my point how naming a penalty "+acc" is counterintuitive
Exactly that is not true. It is worse. Thanks for supporting my point how naming a penalty "+acc" is counterintuitive
+1 acc weapons are less accurate? Now I really am confused. What happened to +1 to the dice roll?
The numbers are on a pop-up over the actual effective percentage to hit of the shot:
See? 85% chance to hit. That 85% is modified by some shot modifiers; a white one and a red one - it isn't far-fetched to assume that the red one is a penalty (am I firing at a small target here perhaps?) and the white one is a bonus (oh, so arm-mounted weapons are more accurate? Good to know).
What's potentially more confusing is that the GM AC/5 has a "+1 acc" listed below the shot modifiers - does that mean it is more accurate or less accurate?
See? 85% chance to hit. That 85% is modified by some shot modifiers; a white one and a red one - it isn't far-fetched to assume that the red one is a penalty (am I firing at a small target here perhaps?) and the white one is a bonus (oh, so arm-mounted weapons are more accurate? Good to know).
What's potentially more confusing is that the GM AC/5 has a "+1 acc" listed below the shot modifiers - does that mean it is more accurate or less accurate?
See last paragraph above. I agree it is a tad confusing when + and - are used in different contexts in the same popup.Exactly that is not true. It is worse. Thanks for supporting my point how naming a penalty "+acc" is counterintuitive
That's actually pretty consistent with it. +1 to dice roll means you have to roll like a 5 instead of a 4, so it's harder to achieve.
That, is part of the problem. Not all new players are going to be familiar with bottom-up dice systems, but rather top down.
DnD, for example, using a top-down check: you must roll higher than the target roll, rather than roll under the target roll.
No. If someone says you get +1 do your diceroll then you roll your die, let's say the result is 4, then +1 is 5.
If the game does actually essentially run off of a dice based rolling system It would be really nice if there was an optional dice log which showed you the results of all the rolls (and the target numbers and all modifiers).
I've only ever seen this in a single non-RPG (Blood Bowl) and it's something I always wanted to see in more games where the underlying ruleset isn't too excessively complex to be easily parsed.
It would make this particular issue less confusing for those who are not explicitly familiar with the TT rules as you would be able to see where those accuracy modifiers are actually being applied.
I do think that all references to shot modifiers need to be very careful to consistently use terminology which makes it absolutely clear if the modifier is supposed to be adjusting the 'to hit' number or if it is added to the roll. "Accuracy" is heavily suggestive of the latter. Unfortunately I can't think of any broadly applicable term to mean the exact opposite other than "inaccuracy" but displaying a shot modifier as "+1 inaccuracy" seems a bit clumsy to me for some reason.
I don't actually know how the TT rules work and have no intuitive understanding of what the +1/-1 to hit adjustments mean without having the colouration of the UI to work off of, which doesn't seem ideal to me.
I've only ever seen this in a single non-RPG (Blood Bowl) and it's something I always wanted to see in more games where the underlying ruleset isn't too excessively complex to be easily parsed.
It would make this particular issue less confusing for those who are not explicitly familiar with the TT rules as you would be able to see where those accuracy modifiers are actually being applied.
I do think that all references to shot modifiers need to be very careful to consistently use terminology which makes it absolutely clear if the modifier is supposed to be adjusting the 'to hit' number or if it is added to the roll. "Accuracy" is heavily suggestive of the latter. Unfortunately I can't think of any broadly applicable term to mean the exact opposite other than "inaccuracy" but displaying a shot modifier as "+1 inaccuracy" seems a bit clumsy to me for some reason.
I don't actually know how the TT rules work and have no intuitive understanding of what the +1/-1 to hit adjustments mean without having the colouration of the UI to work off of, which doesn't seem ideal to me.
They mentioned on the old forums that they will have a combat log available to the end user, if they want to dissect the individual rolls. Whether that has made it through the chopping board is another matter.
+1 to the dice roll is the same as -1 to the target number - this might be what's causing the confusion
And, funnily enough, TT works on the "roll high" principle; you try to roll over your target number. A lower skill is better than a higher because it adds less to the target number, and target numbers are generated by adding different positive and negative modifiers together to arrive at a number you need to beat on two dice. If the target number is more than 12, you cannot succeed.
This game, of course, runs on the "roll low" principle; a higher skill is better because it adds more to the number you need to roll under.
And, funnily enough, TT works on the "roll high" principle; you try to roll over your target number. A lower skill is better than a higher because it adds less to the target number, and target numbers are generated by adding different positive and negative modifiers together to arrive at a number you need to beat on two dice. If the target number is more than 12, you cannot succeed.
This game, of course, runs on the "roll low" principle; a higher skill is better because it adds more to the number you need to roll under.
The numbers are on a pop-up over the actual effective percentage to hit of the shot:
See? 85% chance to hit. That 85% is modified by some shot modifiers; a white one and a red one - it isn't far-fetched to assume that the red one is a penalty (am I firing at a small target here perhaps?) and the white one is a bonus (oh, so arm-mounted weapons are more accurate? Good to know).
What's potentially more confusing is that the GM AC/5 has a "+1 acc" listed below the shot modifiers - does that mean it is more accurate or less accurate?
See last paragraph above. I agree it is a tad confusing when + and - are used in different contexts in the same popup.
Might it be more consistent to have to "Shot Modifier" variables flipped? Like it would show "Arm Mounted +1, Target Size -2 = Shot Mod -1" that way a bonus is always a positive value and malus a negative? I'm sure if we did in to this far enough there is some case where this breaks down, but might work.
Yeah, it would be more consistent if all modifiers were in the same context; either to the roll or to the target number. Mixing them leads to several pages of forum confusion
I don't mind modifier numbers rather than percentages in principal although it seems like and unnecessary obfuscation, but I hate that +1 is bad and -1 is good. I assume this is a relic of table top (which I've never played) but it's just confusing.
Unfortunately I'm guessing we're stuck with it. It's probably too late to change before release now and changing after release would be way worse than leaving it the way it is.
Unfortunately I'm guessing we're stuck with it. It's probably too late to change before release now and changing after release would be way worse than leaving it the way it is.
Yeah, it would be more consistent if all modifiers were in the same context; either to the roll or to the target number. Mixing them leads to several pages of forum confusion
And to me a +2 modifier meaning a -10% chance to hit is not in the same context at all!
As someone said, the engine should be more than capable of translating everything to percentages.
The problem is again, it won't always translate in to the same %. Say you have two targets in the crystal fields. Crystals adding +4 to target difficulty. One target is flat footed, the pop up for that would say "Crystal Fields +20% = +20% to Shot Mod". The other target moved in to them for 5 Evasion. That one's pop up would read "Evasion + 50%, Crystal Fields + 10% = 60% to Shot Mod."
The player is now wondering why one crystal field is worth 1/2 as much as the other. I'd consider this worse than what we got now, at least a +/-1 is always 1.