Seems like rather low hanging fruit, borderline exploit even. If their opinion is already -1000, what's another -100? And since they basically don't do diplomacy at all, you don't risk pissing off their allies either. Seems to me like there is literally no downside, a no-brainer decision every game, every time. Am I missing something here?
Why are we allowed to rival Exterminators/Purifiers/Devourers?
- Thread starter Beanstalker
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Sometimes you'll want to improve relations with an empire who doesn't have them rivalled, and are already at the rival cap, that's the only situation I can think of.
It would make sense if you could only rival empires close to you: since you are getting a dangerous neighbour on your doorstep, it's normal that you'd get influence for your trouble.
Maybe exterminators/devourers should simply passively give you influence as long as you have a common border with them (or a close border, like two jumps between your nearest systems).
Maybe exterminators/devourers should simply passively give you influence as long as you have a common border with them (or a close border, like two jumps between your nearest systems).
I agree that rivaling genociders doesn't have much of a downside. There are some situations where you might want to rival someone else but are already at your rival cap, but other than that you should always do it.
This used to be the case. You could only rival neighboring empires, severely gimping the already weak diplo system and making the militarist faction unpleasable unless you purposefully snake to border as many empires as possible.
It's relatively realistic, however. Genocidal empires are everyone's rival, unless you happen to be the same species as a Fanatic Purifier or a ME/Synth Ascendant to a Determined Exterminator. They're a clear and present danger to rally around.
If you automatically got the opinion modifier with other empires just because a genocider was in the game, sure. Failing that, it is there to facilitate alliances to combat the strong bonuses that genociders get.
I sometimes treat them as a greatest ally, never rivaling them. cuz the galaxy will tolerate me more when they are around(and they'll also cover one of my sides.
downside is that I have to protect that side from them in case they'll decide to suicide and WarDec me.
as for "why rival'? - to gain free influence and \or to please faction that wants rivalry. to provoke them into attacking(especially good with insulting too),
It could be actually be your intention to rival them as a message to the other empires and your people - these guys are assholes and we will do everything we can to protect our people/galaxy from them. It actually is a good RP thing and relation penalty are not important here. And no, there is no downsides of that.
This create a lot of alliances due to the combo mutual threat + rivalling rival.
Personally I would prefer that you couldn't rival those but that they would have a buff to threat generation to make up for it. That way alliance would still be created against them but no free points.
Personally I would prefer that you couldn't rival those but that they would have a buff to threat generation to make up for it. That way alliance would still be created against them but no free points.
Make it possible to invite them to war unless you have set them as rival, this way you can benefit from their assistance and have a reason not to rival them. They will join you because they like mass murder assuming they would attack them normally, to avoid exploits. Besides you can’t attack the purifier if you are allies in a war.
This would be complicated with the current war system.
You can only have normal wars (except with a collossus) and they can only make total wars.
I don't know how that would wor.
I think the rivaling of genocidal empires destroys a little bit the rp aspect. Imagine sending a diplomat to a killer machine empire, declaring that they are your rivals. That doesnt make any sense. An auto rival would be another option, but i think this is covered with the -1000 diplo modifier for genocidal empires. (I got a bug where i got -2000 because it doubled for some weird reason, but who cares, they will be eaten anyway)
Who said its them you declered them a rivals to? As I said maybe its the galaxy or your own society.
True, I suppose you could automatically get total war, even if can’t normally access it.
I see every message, which pops up as an official diplomatic statement. What you suggest, implies that a joke about another empire from common folk of your empire(not from your politicians, leaders), would spark an intergalactic crisis bc your empire officially insulted another one. That would be like italy and france got salty about every nation, where 'le surrender' and 'italian meme army' jokes exists.
No, no, no...you clearly misunderstood. I said its YOU who is declaring rivalry by doing official statement to your citizens and the galaxy. Like, f.e., leader of humans announcing FP a threat to be put down to whole galaxy and his own people and declering UNE will do everything they can to put them down. (and the diplo message is just a "gameplay and story segregation").
Ah, okay, that makes sense. An auto rival from non genocidal ai empires would still make more sense, bc rivaling me after 20 years of eating other empires is a little bit pointless in my opinion.
Actually I believe that declaring rivalry is also statement of focus on your foreign policy goals. You can just treat the guys as a nuisance (especially if they are funny weaklings that only can gloat) or as your primary enemy around whom you will unite your political class.