Why are the Ottomans so overpowered?

[klingonadmiral]

Who are your allies? I would ally Morocco and Bohemia. Also, why is your forcelimit so low? Have you stated all your territory? Your army composition also needs some overhauling. Much less cav (0 by tech 16) and more cannons and especially infantry.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

Who are your allies? I would ally Morocco and Bohemia. Also, why is your forcelimit so low? Have you stated all your territory? Your army composition also needs some overhauling. Much less cav (0 by tech 16) and more cannons and especially infantry.

Allied them already, and I am in the process of overhauling my army. I integrated a lot of land so the soldiers I picked up aren't always what I wanted. I'm working towards quantity ideas and I am already allied to those you mentioned.

 

[Deliberus]

What if they attack me for Southern Italy? Then what?

Are you not allied with anyone? Muscovy? Bohemia? And if they charge your way do you have forts on mountain tiles?

Allied them already, and I am in the process of overhauling my army. I integrated a lot of land so the soldiers I picked up aren't always what I wanted. I'm working towards quantity ideas and I am already allied to those you mentioned.

Why quantity ideas? France already gets a ton from it's provinces and its national idea so it's somewhat redundant. Quality is a much better option, especially in this case.

And you can still defend your italian provinces. Either force them to meet you in the Alps where they'll get -2 or -3 modifier when attacking, -1 or -2 modifier if they're marching on Paris or stackwipe them 1 by 1 if they're crossing the adriatic straight to south italy.

Obviously you can't match on the attack so stay defensive. Either you'll win on the defensive and deny them their wargoal where you can empty the Ottoman bank or you can always wait it out and fight an attritional war until their war enthusiasm reaches 0 where you can simply white peace it out

 

[Travis_Bickle]

Are you not allied with anyone? Muscovy? Bohemia? And if they charge your way do you have forts on mountain tiles?

Why quantity ideas? France already gets a ton from it's provinces and its national idea so it's somewhat redundant. Quality is a much better option, especially in this case.

And you can still defend your italian provinces. Either force them to meet you in the Alps where they'll get -2 or -3 modifier when attacking, -1 or -2 modifier if they're marching on Paris or stackwipe them 1 by 1 if they're crossing the adriatic straight to south italy.

Obviously you can't match on the attack so stay defensive. Either you'll win on the defensive and deny them their wargoal where you can empty the Ottoman bank or you can always wait it out and fight an attritional war until their war enthusiasm reaches 0 where you can simply white peace it out

Yeah but they've just invaded Persia. Where does this end? When they conquer the whole world? Does anyone not agree this is slightly OP moves from the AI?

And yes, I'm allied to Bohemia, Castile and a few smaller nations.

 

[klingonadmiral]

Quality is a much better option, especially in this case.

O F F E N S I V E

Better leader pips, better siege ability, +20% force limit

 

[Travis_Bickle]

I'm trying to get my force limit up in the hope it deters them from a war. I'm at my limit right now. I've stated all I can.

 

[Deliberus]

O F F E N S I V E

Better leader pips, better siege ability, +20% force limit

Quality is a better first, both the inf and cav combat ability help to reinforce your frontline so it doesn't fall as quick

 

[Deliberus]

I'm trying to get my force limit up in the hope it deters them from a war. I'm at my limit right now. I've stated all I can.

What about your idea sets? Which other ones have you taken?

 

[klingonadmiral]

Quality is a better first, both the inf and cav combat ability help to reinforce your frontline so it doesn't fall as quick

That's not how combat ability works. It increases damage dealt, but does not (directly) decrease damage taken.

 

[Travis_Bickle]

What about your idea sets? Which other ones have you taken?

Exploration, Quantity, Humanism. Can pick another. Gonna attempt to PU Spain in 2 years, after that not sure how much bigger I can get given I've basically eaten England.

 

[Deliberus]

That's not how combat ability works. It increases damage dealt, but does not (directly) decrease damage taken.

I meant in the way that the infantry deals more damage to the damage than random general pips do. While the general pips are more important (as they apply to the entire army and not just the frontline), the reason why I go for quality and not offensive first is because leader pips are random while combat ability is consistent. Unless of course you have plenty of military mana to burn through...

 

[Ekcrbe]

Quality is a much better option, especially in this case.

O F F E N S I V E

Better leader pips, better siege ability, +20% force limit

I like Offensive better overall, but it takes longer to come on line in full force, since you have to reroll generals after you've taken the ideas to get the full effect. If you need a quick pick-me-up right before an impending war, Quality is easily the better pick, and as France you'll at least have enough of a navy to make use of the filler naval ideas in the set. You could take three ideas and get 10% ICA/10% CCA, or take three ideas and get nothing until you have new generals too.

 

[Deliberus]

Exploration, Quantity, Humanism. Can pick another. Gonna attempt to PU Spain in 2 years, after that not sure how much bigger I can get given I've basically eaten England.

How many ideas have you taken? I ask this because you'd greatly benefit from these ideas/policies in particular:
1) Elan!

+20% Morale of armies

2)
Ambition:

+5% Discipline

3)

Inspirational Leaders
Ensure that our officers are men of reason and learning who can inspire the common soldiers on the field of battle.

is displayed: has the idea groups: Humanist ideas Quantity ideas	is acceptable: has completed both idea groups.
Effects +1 Land leader shock

 

[Travis_Bickle]

I give up:

This is ridiculous and proves my point. Every save is like this for me. Yeah I know historical borders but they're just going to keep snowballing now like they have in other saves. Thre will be no limit.

 

[adin85]

Start to play Poland. Ottomans are easy after nerfs. Before 1550 you should have Constantinapole.

 

[eoncommander]

Here's where I'm at in my current game (I think it's a little later than your game but can't be sure since you've cut out the UI):

The Ottomans are approaching their historical borders, picked good idea groups, and outnumber me 2.5:1 in troops. Am I worried about this? Not really! I think I could still take them one-on-one, especially after I finish quality (note that I have not taken quantity myself, or I'd have a ~450k FL). This is, of course, helped by being Prussia, but I've just been leaning into their strengths. If I were playing as France, I would have taken quantity and been closer to parity in troop levels.

In the middle of the 1500s I would not have wanted to tangle with them, but I actually was allied with them for a long time to deter coalitions so it wasn't a problem. I declined a call to arms once so that I could remain allied to them. But by 1700, after I've continued to expand and formed Germany, I'll definitely be able to knock them back if I want.

My point is, if you don't stop their expansion early (as with the Venice or Byzantium strategies), they are near-impossible to stop mid-game. But by the late game, they will be eminently beatable, because you as a human can expand much faster than the AI can, especially once absolutism kicks in. As France, you might focus your efforts on India and China (depending on Ming's status) before taking on the Ottomans. If they do declare on you in the meantime, you can fight them to a draw with some of the defensive strategies discussed here, or you can get out of it quickly by surrendering a few provinces that you'll be able to retake later on.

 

[RobbieAB]

Quality is a better first, both the inf and cav combat ability help to reinforce your frontline so it doesn't fall as quick

And Defensive beats both as a quick boost to your battle winning.

The morale booster is significant, and the mechanics testing is pretty clear that +15% morale is going to pretty decisively beat +5% discipline for winning battles, which is going to beat +10% combat ability.

Exploration, Quantity, Humanism. Can pick another. Gonna attempt to PU Spain in 2 years, after that not sure how much bigger I can get given I've basically eaten England.

Quantity is an economic idea group paid for using military points. I would rarely take it in my first three as France, preferring Offensive or Defensive. Once you have a couple of full combat width stacks, the numbers the Ottomans are fielding stop mattering so much as the AI can't use them effectively.

 

[BoomKidneyShot]

Start to play Poland. Ottomans are easy after nerfs. Before 1550 you should have Constantinapole.

Depends on how you want to play Poland. 1450 is even better than 1550. That would rely on getting Military access though, which is potentially problematic...

 

[hegel68]

Once you have a couple of full combat width stacks, the numbers the Ottomans are fielding stop mattering so much as the AI can't use them effectively.

In which sense does it stop mattering?

I haven't read the whole thread, but in my current Prussia game I am for the first time experiencing an overpowered Ottoman Empire as well (I also never believed the complaints about super-Ottos so far...): I am in the late 17th century, have the German borders of 1871, some colonies in Northern and Southern America and Austria in a PU.
The Ottomans have expanded into their historical borders and somewhat beyond (all of Arabia and Morocco plus about half of Persia and most of Southern Russia). Even for my Prussia, they are unbeatable due to their sheer numbers. they have a force limit of 847 right now, I have around 270, Russia has about 430, Castille abround 200. So, they have about as much as the next three great powers combined.

They declare war on Austria every time, a truce expires and I have hardly a chance to beat them (especially since they are allied to Lithuania, which they broke out of the PU with Poland, and the world's third great power, Castille). I can hold out against them in open battle quite a few times, killing 400-500k of their troops, but then I run out of manpower and they come back with another 500k and steamroll me. I am allied to Russia and Scandinavia, but they are useless, because they get stackwiped by the Ottomans in no time before I can even reach Russia to help them.
I guess, my next idea group should be quantity, which I thought wouldn't be necessary as Prussia. But, to be honest, I am also about to give up.

 

[Deliberus]

And Defensive beats both as a quick boost to your battle winning.

The morale booster is significant, and the mechanics testing is pretty clear that +15% morale is going to pretty decisively beat +5% discipline for winning battles, which is going to beat +10% combat ability.

Problem with Defensive is that it becomes less valuable over time. The Morale boost is huge and great for early game I'll agree, but that's only 1 solid idea out of 2 (the other being fort maintenance reduction and maybe reinforce speed). The rest are near useless and are just a military power sink. And the reason why it becomes less valuable over time are the tech changes where firepower becomes more useful, casualties taken ramp up and morale boost becomes meaningless...