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DEEPGAME

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Well, now you know why everyone hates the Ottomans :D

But seriously. The Ottoman AI is extremely aggressive. There are a few rules if you want a peaceful coexistence. One of them is never border their lands (just never) because they will turn hostile on you immediately. And second to never let them occupy anything because exactly that happens if you let them. So it's better to use them as a wrecking ball whilst you are roguelike sniping your needed provinces (this also conserves a lot of manpower)
What? Ottoman AI is as aggresive as chicken. Because Pds nerfes Ottomans in every patch.
 
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Lacost

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Thats true. France Ottomans and Russia were nerfed a lot. New patch will nerf Russia again.

Which isn't a bad thing at all. As long as they are able to put up a real threat but don't get an invincible blob I'm fine with that. Only Russia is almost down to it's knees in this patch because the PLC is so overpowered.
 

TheMeInTeam

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AFAIK it's because the interior of Arabia didn't have a strong central structure until the House of Saud. Though government forms and their application is usually a lackluster thing in eu4.

The representation is nevertheless inconsistent throughout the world. Who *did* have a "strong central structure" in 1444? Wasn't that exceptional? What reasonable cutoff threshold is there for a "tribal" designation that requires heavy idea group investment *and* a stability hit surpassed only by the game's worst disasters? When did the game's feudal/despotic monarchies in 1444 take such a large stability hit, in practical terms? If tribal governments are so disorganized, why is it impossible to become a tribal democracy as say a tribal federation...doesn't that run counter to the premise of limited central control by one ruler in the first place?

The generic tribal governments, while many times better since the removal of "incapable ruler" penalties, remain among the game's more annoying and baseless nerfjobs. They're arbitrary in their application (Songhai and Mali) and in their relative penalties (so many heir kill events and non-trivial extra stab hits, exacerbated by regency councils as a broken mechanic).
 
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DEEPGAME

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Which isn't a bad thing at all. As long as they are able to put up a real threat but don't get an invincible blob I'm fine with that. Only Russia is almost down to it's knees in this patch because the PLC is so overpowered.
Thats the worst thing. Since these three nations were the most powerful ones in eu4 era. Not scandinavia... look at the name of scenario u play
 
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zsImmortal

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The representation is nevertheless inconsistent throughout the world. Who *did* have a "strong central structure" in 1444? Wasn't that exceptional? What reasonable cutoff threshold is there for a "tribal" designation that requires heavy idea group investment *and* a stability hit surpassed only by the game's worst disasters? When did the game's feudal/despotic monarchies in 1444 take such a large stability hit, in practical terms? If tribal governments are so disorganized, why is it impossible to become a tribal democracy as say a tribal federation...doesn't that run counter to the premise of limited central control by one ruler in the first place?

I shouldn't have said 'strong' as such, but most of the monarchies in EU4 had some semblance of central authority, however loose the term applies. I'm not too well-versed in the history of the interior of Arabia, but to the best of my knowledge, they were largely groups of clans, or tribal organizations.

Government forms is easily one of the more difficult areas of the game to understand the logic behind, including how it is applied haphazardly.

The generic tribal governments, while many times better since the removal of "incapable ruler" penalties, remain among the game's more annoying and baseless nerfjobs. They're arbitrary in their application (Songhai and Mali) and in their relative penalties (so many heir kill events and non-trivial extra stab hits, exacerbated by regency councils as a broken mechanic).

I don't disagree. I also simply don't understand how one tribal group (steppe nomads) have a heavy hit to base autonomy, but other tribal govts don't. They also give tribes large penalties to force you to move out of them, but don't allow such a thing to be done without significant investment in both ressources and time in things purely unrelated. But the game is still just a game.

Thats true. France Ottomans and Russia were nerfed a lot. New patch will nerf Russia again.

Muscovy has been getting buffed patch after patch. Their total army is larger than but a few nations (I'm not sure if anyone other than Ming and Timurids do, 2 nations that are engineered to self-destruct) on day 1. They also get some of the better missions for conquest.
 
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