Why are the Mamluks alive?

[Indíbil]

I know that the Ottomans were so strong that they needed some "limits", but actually its so weird when you are in late game and they dont have even Damascus, it seems too inaccurated. I always waited for the inclusion of the "Egypt event", where you could annex them just by reaching Qayrah. Yes a strong Ottoman Empire is annoying for players who choose nearer countries but it should be like that, since it is one of the protagonists of the Modern Era, but more annoying is to see the Mamluks in the XVIII century.

Surely is because im specialized in Ottoman history but i always saw a lack of inversion in the Sublime Porte, although they have some exclusive mechanics they leave a lot to be desired.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Heiliges Thüringens Reich]

In my Aragon game, the Ottomans are kicking the crap out of the Mamluks.

 

[Indíbil]

In my Aragon game, the Ottomans are kicking the crap out of the Mamluks.

Thats strange, but even if they do they will take hundreds of years to reach Lybia. The Mamluks were conquered in 2 years, it doesnt make any sense that you have to spend unlimited wars agains them to take 3 or 4 provinces in each.

 

[Blizzrd33]

If you really don't want the Mamluks to exist, then play from one of the scenarios that starts later, for example in the 1579 start the Ottomans have the whole of the Mamluk area.

 

[Indíbil]

If you really don't want the Mamluks to exist, then play from one of the scenarios that starts later, for example in the 1579 start the Ottomans have the whole of the Mamluk area.

Thats not the thing. The Mamluks were in descomposition, they need something like a disaster like other countries have, something like what Paradox is making with Majapahit.

 

[Monumentiumerongraphataquesqly]

Thats not the thing. The Mamluks were in descomposition, they need something like a disaster like other countries have, something like what Paradox is making with Majapahit.

Anyway, i see the community prefers to have the Ottomans as destroyed as possible, at least this makes our games easier indeed...

So 2 people = the EU4 community.

 

[Indíbil]

So 2 people = the EU4 community.

True, edited.

 

[Aussiehawker]

One very annoying thing is having to chase the Mamluks into the central Arabian desert. I think if any power loses too much power while holding tribal areas, that the tribes should just bust out.

 

[Muelleri]

Ottoman is not that strong in current version.

 

[Aussiehawker]

Ottoman is not that strong in current version.

Oh yeah. In the games I've seen, they keep allying Aq Qoyunlu and then just not advancing any further. And they take ages to deal with Byzantum and Greece. The current Ottoman mission are not AI friendly.



But the Mamuluks are a major issue for even the human. Not in beating them, but the sheer time involved. 2 wars minimum to kick them out of the Levant. 2 wars for Egypt. Then wars to deal with their extra territories in Arabia, ranging from one if you box them in well, to three if they run wild into North Africa, Sudan and Arabia.

With truce timers as they are, even if you hit them as soon as possible, box them in and use tricks like Syrian reconquests CB, it takes a while. And causes a ton of AE, so if you cause any coalitions, they will join if they can.

 

[Indíbil]

Oh yeah. In the games I've seen, they keep allying Aq Qoyunlu and then just not advancing any further. And they take ages to deal with Byzantum and Greece. The current Ottoman mission are not AI friendly.



But the Mamuluks are a major issue for even the human. Not in beating them, but the sheer time involved. 2 wars minimum to kick them out of the Levant. 2 wars for Egypt. Then wars to deal with their extra territories in Arabia, ranging from one if you box them in well, to three if they run wild into North Africa, Sudan and Arabia.

With truce timers as they are, even if you hit them as soon as possible, box them in and use tricks like Syrian reconquests CB, it takes a while. And causes a ton of AE, so if you cause any coalitions, they will join if they can.

Exactly, the best solution i present is the "event one", so that you can beat the Mamluks with just one war, but only if you take a 90% war score for example.

 

[Avernite]

Exactly, the best solution i present is the "event one", so that you can beat the Mamluks with just one war, but only if you take a 90% war score for example.

I would think an Ottoman mission would be a better option then, and allow a player to plan for it.

 

[Blust]

That idea is terrible. An event that give you the entire country because you win a war is even more awful that free PU missions.

 

[Indíbil]

That idea is terrible. An event that give you the entire country because you win a war is even more awful that free PU missions.

Same happens with Crimea, Burgundy or Lithuania. If you dont like the idea present an other one.

 

[Indíbil]

I would think an Ottoman mission would be a better option then, and allow a player to plan for it.

This would be perfect but we should be sure that the AI does it !

 

[Blust]

Same happens with Crimea, Burgundy or Lithuania. If you dont like the idea present an other one.

No, it's not the same. At least the previous one you mention are RNG dependant, which makes it more "balanced" than a "take his capital, win 500 dev and 350% war score for free".
Any idea (even the current way it's done) is better than yours so I'll pass on "presenting another idea that allows the Ottomans to eat Egypt and Syria in 3 years"

Why not doing the same idea for Timurids ? Once they annex Dehi, bam, they got an event that gives them half of India for free ?

 

[EarlKonrad]

Exactly, the best solution i present is the "event one", so that you can beat the Mamluks with just one war, but only if you take a 90% war score for example.

There is an event which gives the Ottomans claims on all provinces that the Mamlucks own. The event is rare (its conditions to trigger are obtuse) so most players won't ever see it.

They overbuffed the Mam when they released CoC. They have a heck of a lot of development and rarely wage war, which means they always have full manpower. These two factors combine to make the Ottomans scared of going after the levant and migrate to Europe instead. If you don't own CoC, the Mamlucks are stuck with low legitimacy because their new monarchs always start with 20-30 legitimacy, making them slightly weaker.

 

[MadDoctorScientist]

Albeit a event/triggered-mission causing the Ottomans to attack them would not be that far fetched, assuming the player is not the Mamluks. A war for the title of Caliph maybe? The Sultans only started using the title after they conquered Egypt, if I am not mistaken.
This should be on the Suggestions thread.

 

[Froonk]

Ottomans need a mission rework to give them bonuses for conquering Anatolia, Levant and Egypt. Same way how Timurid mission tree gives them many temporary boosts towards Delhi. There should also be events for when you take Alexandria and Cairo giving one time boost and possibly inheriting hejaz if it's under Mamluk control.

Maybe most importantly getting claims in Levant within Ottoman missions is placed awkwardly requiring you to take Eastern Anatolia and Kurdistan first. Not only is this historically wrong as Ottomans took Levant and Egypt first it also denies the AI its claims which makes them much less likely to attack Mamluks. Conquer Levant should be tied directly to consolidate Anatolia in same tier with safe guard Anatolia.

Ottoman missions are really lacking in anything but claims in general and should be updated to Timurid/Mughal standards with momentum boosts for taking Egypt especially, conquest of Egypt was similar in pillage value for Ottomans as Mesoamerica and Incas were for Spain and Northern and Central India was for Mughals. There is also plenty of missions lacking for what transpired in North Africa and Southeast asia let alone possible alternative history missions for taking Gujarat, Somalia area and Southeast Asia. Ottomans at the very least should get subjugate missions for North Africa and events for releasing Algiers, Tunis and Tripoli as marches which should turn into pirate republics in 17th.

 

[Indíbil]

Ottomans need a mission rework to give them bonuses for conquering Anatolia, Levant and Egypt. Same way how Timurid mission tree gives them many temporary boosts towards Delhi. There should also be events for when you take Alexandria and Cairo giving one time boost and possibly inheriting hejaz if it's under Mamluk control.

Maybe most importantly getting claims in Levant within Ottoman missions is placed awkwardly requiring you to take Eastern Anatolia and Kurdistan first. Not only is this historically wrong as Ottomans took Levant and Egypt first it also denies the AI its claims which makes them much less likely to attack Mamluks. Conquer Levant should be tied directly to consolidate Anatolia in same tier with safe guard Anatolia.

Ottoman missions are really lacking in anything but claims in general and should be updated to Timurid/Mughal standards with momentum boosts for taking Egypt especially, conquest of Egypt was similar in pillage value for Ottomans as Mesoamerica and Incas were for Spain and Northern and Central India was for Mughals. There is also plenty of missions lacking for what transpired in North Africa and Southeast asia let alone possible alternative history missions for taking Gujarat, Somalia area and Southeast Asia. Ottomans at the very least should get subjugate missions for North Africa and events for releasing Algiers, Tunis and Tripoli as marches which should turn into pirate republics in 17th.

Totally agree.