Why are the Iberians not colonizing S. America?

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Runite

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Just curious, after a few observer games they always go for Siberia and Asian provinces. :I

Hell, they even colonized Australia before colonizing the west coast of South America.
 

GabbyDieJaeger

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There's a lot of additional tropical provinces, which really mess up the game balance if you ask me. Makes Spanish/Portuguese North America even more common.
 

atwix

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There's a lot of additional tropical provinces, which really mess up the game balance if you ask me. Makes Spanish/Portuguese North America even more common.

AI just follows formulae. And they changed them.
 

Kansai-kun

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Well, I think the new setup adds a nice bit of randomness to colonising because it gives other countries a chance to move in. In my last game South America was divided between the Dutch, the Bretons (later the French), the Spanish, the English and the Portuguese. It's nice to not always have the Iberians own all of South America. :)

North America was divided between Scotland, England, Spain and Norway, btw.
 

miguellima

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I'm playing as Portugal right now and i'm going for the Caribbean with the goal of colonizing as much as i can in the Caribbean trade node. After that i'll go for Asia. Since Amazonas feeds into Caribbean and Brazil and Brazil feeds into Ivory Coast. I see no point in wasting time there. The trade is going to flow through Caribbean and Ivory Coast anyway so i'm going to concentrate on those.

It's basically what the AI is doing, although it shouldn't.
 

balmung60

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Basically, because a lot of South America is rather poor (most of the good stuff is already settled by the various proto-Inca states and the richest colonial region on the continent (Brazil) is home to a total of 151 base tax (albeit more with native assimilation), much of which is tied up on hard-to-colonize tropical provinces) and a large portion is tropical.

The easily-accessible parts of North America have lots of non-tropical base tax 3 and 4 provinces (with 5 and 6 in the Caribbean).

And Australia, while poor, at least isn't tropical.
 

Ranjid

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Basically, because a lot of South America is rather poor (most of the good stuff is already settled by the various proto-Inca states and the richest colonial region on the continent (Brazil) is home to a total of 151 base tax (albeit more with native assimilation), much of which is tied up on hard-to-colonize tropical provinces) and a large portion is tropical.

The easily-accessible parts of North America have lots of non-tropical base tax 3 and 4 provinces (with 5 and 6 in the Caribbean).

And Australia, while poor, at least isn't tropical.

Australia has a high chance for gold provinces to pop up afaik. But what I really don't get is why Portugal insists on colonizing Oceania before Sout America. I can't stand seeing their colonies in the Philippines around 1600.
 

kitemasaki

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Australia has a high chance for gold provinces to pop up afaik. But what I really don't get is why Portugal insists on colonizing Oceania before Sout America. I can't stand seeing their colonies in the Philippines around 1600.
Oh I see. I also find it frustrating they get to the Philippines around 1600..considering the fact they were in Ceylon in the early 1500s. Yeah I am on board with this. They should have a stronger presence in the Phillipines before 1600. :p
 

balmung60

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Australia has a high chance for gold provinces to pop up afaik. But what I really don't get is why Portugal insists on colonizing Oceania before Sout America. I can't stand seeing their colonies in the Philippines around 1600.
Why would Iberian colonies in the Philippenes before 1600 annoy you (at least beyond wanting them for yourself)? IRL, Spain had started by the 1570s and more or less had the whole thing by about 1600.

But odds are, the AI wants to be able to drag Asian swag back to Sevilla.
 

Ranjid

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Oh I see. I also find it frustrating they get to the Philippines around 1600..considering the fact they were in Ceylon in the early 1500s. Yeah I am on board with this. They should have a stronger presence in the Phillipines before 1600. :p

They weren't colonizing Ceylon but had a minor trade post there. There's no way those two are even remotely equal.

Why would Iberian colonies in the Philippenes before 1600 annoy you (at least beyond wanting them for yourself)? IRL, Spain had started by the 1570s and more or less had the whole thing by about 1600.

But odds are, the AI wants to be able to drag Asian swag back to Sevilla.

Oh well, maybe I should've made myself more clear: They shouldn't be focusing on Oceania and the Phillipines while 50% of South America is still up for grabs.
 

balmung60

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They weren't colonizing Ceylon but had a minor trade post there. There's no way those two are even remotely equal.
In game terms, that's worth about a third of the island.



Oh well, maybe I should've made myself more clear: They shouldn't be focusing on Oceania and the Phillipines while 50% of South America is still up for grabs.
Well, maybe if the Spaniards properly tried to annex the Mesoamericans and Andeans instead of sitting on their thumbs.

But part of the thing is that the AI seems to think that their colonial nation will get the rest once it forms, at least until they've spread out a bit and get back to colonizing the places they started first.
 

balmung60

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So sending a merchant to Ceylon colonizes the province? :eek:hmy: Damn, should've known earlier! I don't mind them colonizing the lands there. But it shouldn't be top priority, while even the Carribean hasn't been fully settled.
Then maybe the bigger problem is that the Caribbean isn't being fully settled fast enough.

It's kind of the weird thing about the Iberians. They colonize too fast to be fun to compete with, but too slowly to recreate history.
 

kitemasaki

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No thats not the issue. The most unhistorical feature in this game is that Europe can colonize the New World before they can even get to Asia. Its not a theory, debate or fantasy it is fact that they had footholds in Africa and Asia before Portugal even settled in Brazil. Yes they discovered the New World earlier, but nobody colonized it for decades after. Ship range and colonial range should be changed increasing the range to the New World for colonizing and shortening it to Africa.
 

Hakuromatsu

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No thats not the issue. The most unhistorical feature in this game is that Europe can colonize the New World before they can even get to Asia. Its not a theory, debate or fantasy it is fact that they had footholds in Africa and Asia before Portugal even settled in Brazil. Yes they discovered the New World earlier, but nobody colonized it for decades after. Ship range and colonial range should be changed increasing the range to the New World for colonizing and shortening it to Africa.

True, that. In my opinion...

- "Open waters" attrition needs to be even deadlier relative to "time at sea" attrition (or ships could be able to dock in uncolonized provinces to reset time at sea without repairing). Crossing the Atlantic should be significantly more difficult than hugging the African coastline, rounding the Cape, and discovering Asia.
- A Treaty of Torsedillas style mechanic would incentivize Asian expansion. Or an Inter caetera style mechanic (e.g. the papal controller can claim all provinces in a certain colonial region / trade company charter, or perhaps any nation could spend papal influence to do the same).
- Europeans should be able to somehow gain cores on overseas conquests -- Portugal had a "core" on Goa in the sense that Goa became the focal point of Portugal's Asian operations, as early as 1510. Something like a mechanic whereby any country can designate one overseas province its overseas capital for a free core on that province.
 

kitemasaki

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The AI has a bonus range, so probably they're going to the regions that they judge most benefitial.
True and a lot of this depends on if they have removed the TI to the New World. In my current game Castille was landlocked for a while due to a war with France and the Ottomans. There was no way for them to send explorers out. They didn't get to the New World until after 1550. Portugal was colonizing Africa and its ships were exploring past the cape. Never saw any heading towards South America. So it seems it can truly be a random roll of which path they took on the fork in the road.