Why are the Devs so afraid to say anything about a ruler designer?

[Torredebelem]

About the OP:

Because it is not good commercial practice to comment negatively on a product you want to sell and regarding a feature that will become a major selling point in a future DLC.

 

[Olden Weiss]

Er, speak for yourself, for me those are pretty deep in the Uncanny Valley. Even if they're actual photos of real people.

That's probably because they're not. They're paintings.

If it's photos you're after, here are a few I was able to dig up off the net which display what I can best describe as "not-ugly asymmetry":

You could find more if you just went with famous athletes or actors, as well. Literally everyone has asymmetry in their face.

Edit: In fact, I've taken the liberty of doing just that.

Edit: Apparently, celebrities can't be photographed unless the camera is tilted to the right...

 

[james24eagle]

It’s probably planned as a paid DLC.

 

[MrReaper182]

As long as I can change my dynasty name and coat of arms to what ever I like then I'm more than happy.

 

[GreyJack]

*citation needed. We're a vocal minority of the CK population, don't forget that.

Perhaps it is a rash conclusion. But I don't find it unlikely. Not based on the forum, either. But on lots of people I've met off the forum and played with, as well. And achievement statistics suggest similar things, as well. Although there are obviously other reasons people might not play achievement-enabled games. Regardless, I'm confident that a sizeable portion of the player base does find the Ruler Designer very valuable. Just like the other RPG features that Paradox has been shifting towards.

About the OP:

Because it is not good commercial practice to comment negatively on a product you want to sell and regarding a feature that will become a major selling point in a future DLC.

But what about all the other things that have disappointed people that they've still revealed? Like the fact that there are no playable Republics or nomads. Nothing else sticks out to me as something the Devs will so deliberately avoid touching.

 

[Olden Weiss]

Perhaps it is a rash conclusion. But I don't find it unlikely. Not based on the forum, either. But on lots of people I've met off the forum and played with, as well. And achievement statistics suggest similar things, as well. Although there are obviously other reasons people might not play achievement-enabled games. Regardless, I'm confident that a sizeable portion of the player base does find the Ruler Designer very valuable. Just like the other RPG features that Paradox has been shifting towards.



But what about all the other things that have disappointed people that they've still revealed? Like the fact that there are no playable Republics or nomads. Nothing else sticks out to me as something the Devs will so deliberately avoid touching.

I thought the same, though Nils' dev diary mentions modding oneself into the game specifically so I feel like on this front... If they're embargoing any mention of ruler designer until a later diary (or even launch!), they're going so far as to subtly misdirect us into believing there won't be one at this point.

 

[GeorgTheKnyaz]

And therefore it has nothing to do with whether ruler designer is in at launch.



That's not necessarily true. It sounds like all beautiful does is improve symmetry (and possibly remove some blemishing, though I've not seen any confirmation of this), and asymmetrical features can be plenty attractive.

View attachment 602760

For example. Likewise, all the ugly trait seems to do is decrease symmetry, putting characters further and further from the golden ratio.

With regards to fat and muscle, a slider can be used to determine body fat, and muscle is automatically derived from prowess (though giving the player a slider for that as well couldn't hurt).

True, but what I meant is what if you make a symmetrical character, but give him an ugly trait. I guess if we had a designer, we wouldn’t be able to give those traits to our ruler, but the game would itself determine if the character is ugly or beautiful, after we have done our character.

 

[Ezumiyr]

Why be so quiet on a subject that such a massive portion of the player base considers nearly essential?

Perhaps it is a rash conclusion. But I don't find it unlikely.

It is very unlikely that a majority of players consider the ruler designer to be such an essential feature.
The ruler designed is only used for first characters, when the scope of the game is on centuries-spanning dynasties.
Sure, there may be some players who use the RD to customize their first character (to various extents, and for different purposes). But to the point of considering not playing the game if it's not included at release, or even to be so obsessed with that feature that they try to find reasons why the devs aren't obsessed as well? You're a few dozens at best.

For the vast majority of players, the RD is a nice potential addition, nothing else.

I would even go as far as considering that the players obsessed with it seem to have a very distinct playstyle bringing the game closer to the Sims than the full CK experience. Picking a lowly count in an interesting place or from a famous dynasty and forming an empire with his heirs, setting new challenges with each character, is how the majority of players play. Yes, they'll use the RD to change their dynasty and its heraldry, or even sometimes to edit the trait of their initial character, but honestly that's not something you do extensively once you did a few playthroughs.

From the devs' perspective, it's pretty clear that this feature is far from a priority. It require work for something you can easily do through light modding (with the in-game console) anyway if you're really motivated.

Seriously, I wish that the smallest issue people have with the game wouldn't because a topic that almost deserves its own quarantine thread everytime. Why can't we have a bit more objectivity? That's enough RD spam already...

 

[Torredebelem]

[...]
But what about all the other things that have disappointed people that they've still revealed? Like the fact that there are no playable Republics or nomads. Nothing else sticks out to me as something the Devs will so deliberately avoid touching.

You certainly have a point there but pretty obvious things that are lacking from the game from the beginning (like Nomads or Republics) should immediately be admitted and this also based on good commercial practice to appear trustworthy to the community. The importance of a Ruler Designer pales in comparison wirth the impact well implemented Nomads and/or Republics have.

 

[Strangedane]

RD could be great.
Assuming it's fully ironman compatible.

Otherwise it's a nonfeature for me.

 

[The Shacks]

Did people ever even use ruler designer? Feel like it was just always an irritation, some cheeky s**t would always try sneak in some broken OP ruler in a multiplayer session. Only time I found it fun was in those scenarios where you wanted to start as some insignificent norse count and take over the world.

 

[Olden Weiss]

Did people ever even use ruler designer? Feel like it was just always an irritation, some cheeky s**t would always try sneak in some broken OP ruler in a multiplayer session. Only time I found it fun was in those scenarios where you wanted to start as some insignificent norse count and take over the world.

I never played online, so I used it often. For personal what-if projects, it's quite a useful roleplaying tool.

 

[abibatoot]

Did people ever even use ruler designer? Feel like it was just always an irritation, some cheeky s**t would always try sneak in some broken OP ruler in a multiplayer session. Only time I found it fun was in those scenarios where you wanted to start as some insignificent norse count and take over the world.

I stopped using historical characters altogether because of the ruler designer.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

True, but what I meant is what if you make a symmetrical character, but give him an ugly trait. I guess if we had a designer, we wouldn’t be able to give those traits to our ruler, but the game would itself determine if the character is ugly or beautiful, after we have done our character.

It's unlikely that you'd be able to get a "free" beneficial trait in this way.
What might be more likely is that there is randomness in how symmetrical the character is, and the variation is reduced by "beautiful" and increased by "ugly".

I stopped using historical characters altogether because of the ruler designer.

Perhaps this is relevant to why they might not want to release it at first?
Perhaps they want people to play with historical characters rather than just going ahead and replacing important characters right from the start?

 

[GreyJack]

You're a few dozens at best.

For the vast majority of players, the RD is a nice potential addition, nothing else.

I would even go as far as considering that the players obsessed with it seem to have a very distinct playstyle bringing the game closer to the Sims than the full CK experience. Picking a lowly count in an interesting place or from a famous dynasty and forming an empire with his heirs, setting new challenges with each character, is how the majority of players play.

Um, citation needed? You use even less evidence to support your claim than I did. I would also like to mention that I never said anything about a "majority". I would consider anything at 10% or higher as a large portion of the player base. Also, if anything, I find the playstyle most reminiscent of this to be RPG games, not the Sims.

Seriously, I wish that the smallest issue people have with the game wouldn't because a topic that almost deserves its own quarantine thread everytime. Why can't we have a bit more objectivity? That's enough RD spam already...

Guess what? We don't want these threads, either. It sounds like what you want is exactly what I want. For Paradox to just confirm or deny the existence of the feature. The reason people are "obsessing" as you so insultingly put it. (I don't think two threads over the span of 10 months can be considered obsessing on my part, personally) Is exactly because they're so reluctant to mention it one way or the other. If they just bothered telling us, then we could shut up about it. And that's what this thread is about. It's me wondering why they don't just tell us one way or the other.

(Also, I don't think objectivity means what you think it means.)

From the devs' perspective, it's pretty clear that this feature is far from a priority. It require work for something you can easily do through light modding (with the in-game console) anyway if you're really motivated.

Boy, you sure seem keen on speaking for the devs. But if it's as low-priority as you claim, why don't they just tell us? They've responded to plenty of other low-priority things, that a lot fewer people were asking about.

 

[Knotz]

If something is only the concern of a few dozen people and you find it annoying that threads about it keep popping up then you'd probably be best served by not contributing to threads that keep their concerns visible and salient. Probably better for the old blood pressure too.

 

[Torredebelem]

Did people ever even use ruler designer?[...]

Yes, always and to start very differently, not just to make ubber characters.
I don't care the less for achievements as my selected mods give me so much more from a game play perspective than achievements can ever do.

 

[GreyJack]

Yes, always and to start very differently, not just to make ubber characters.
I don't care the less for achievements as my selected mods give me so much more from a game play perspective than achievements can ever do.

It's pretty clear that achievements are not a priority for the vast majority of players, in general. So you're certainly not alone on that front.

 

[Maziga]

The only possible reason for the devs not giving a confirmation/denial of the Ruler Designer in the game, in my eyes (hasn't been confirmed anywhere people), is that they themselves do not know whether it is a good idea to include one. Why would they not know? Well, the latest dev diary

So, for example, instead of just picking a nose (you shouldn’t pick your nose kids) out of a selection of pre-defined noses we store values for nose protrusion, nose height, nose length, nose nostril height, nose nostril width, nose ridge profile, nose ridge angle, nose ridge width, nose size, nose tip angle, nose tip protrusion, nose tip width, nose ridge definition and nose tip definition. In other words; if you’re into noses, or any other facial feature, this is the game for you.

makes it clear that if there is a ruler designer that takes full advantage of the game mechanics, there will probably be something like 200 sliders just for the appearance of your face. And looking at this quote

Due to the fact that all characters use the same base model, we can easily create blends between multiple DNAs. Each character stores two sets of genes that we call dominant and recessive, respectively. (Disclaimer: Please note that the dominant and recessive genes in our system do not work exactly like in real life. We’re still dealing with an approximation of genetics. We haven’t fully replicated real world genetics. Yet.) When a baby is born it will inherit two versions of each gene - both of which will come randomly from either parent. As mentioned one of these genes will end up being dominant and the other one recessive based on a chance value (dominant genes from the parents have a higher chance of being inherited as dominant genes for the baby). The appearance of the newborn character is decided entirely by its dominant gene set. But the recessive genes are still there as a representation of genes carried down the generations. So when this new character gets to make its own babies they will have a chance of inheriting a gene from their grandparents, even though that gene might not have been visible on their parent.

it is clear that even for the characters you create, the game will have to randomly generate recessive traits for your character (unless you want to do that yourself, in which case, welcome to 200 sliders, 2nd edition) which might lead to your massive nose and ears that you specifically designed for your character leaving the dynasty in the third generation.

And combine that with the fact that the devs have presumably already coded the exact traits for quite a few main characters into the game, I can see why they might be reluctant to release for free a feature that will allow players to leave all their hard work behind.

 

[GreyJack]

The only possible reason for the devs not giving a confirmation/denial of the Ruler Designer in the game, in my eyes (hasn't been confirmed anywhere people), is that they themselves do not know whether it is a good idea to include one. Why would they not know? Well, the latest dev diary



makes it clear that if there is a ruler designer that takes full advantage of the game mechanics, there will probably be something like 200 sliders just for the appearance of your face. And looking at this quote



it is clear that even for the characters you create, the game will have to randomly generate recessive traits for your character (unless you want to do that yourself, in which case, welcome to 200 sliders, 2nd edition) which might lead to your massive nose and ears that you specifically designed for your character leaving the dynasty in the third generation.

And combine that with the fact that the devs have presumably already coded the exact traits for quite a few main characters into the game, I can see why they might be reluctant to release for free a feature that will allow players to leave all their hard work behind.

A very reasonable interpretation. It's hard to argue with the fact that the complexity of the new models is going to make any Ruler Designer a lot more difficult to put together than the one for CK2, certainly. And I suppose the uncertainty on their part could be why they've been barred from mentioning anything on the subject, even now when it's basically too late, anyway.

Thanks for actually attempting to answer the question posed by the thread, by the way. Rather than arguing about the merits of a Ruler Designer existing at all. (something that the OP never brought up)