Why are Psi warriors considered bad?

[scaper12123]

People say that Gene Warriors are the end-game armies and everybody always uses them, but I honestly feel like psi warriors aren't as bad as people say. Yes, they do much less damage, but when you compare that to the fact that they heavily reduce the damage output of opposing armies it kind of makes up for it, at least in my experience.

 

[General Retreat]

I actually prefer psi warriors. If you can break the enemy morale, their damage output is pretty much irrelevant anyway. That said, the AI isn't great at running optimised elite armies so I've not put the above to the definitive test as yet.

 

[HandicapdHippo]

The damage output of the opposing troops is kind of irreverent, 90% of the time you are just fighting regular defensive armies that are pretty crappy. With Gene Warriors you can often attack planets with the fortification fully intact and still win.

 

[Alkaid98]

Yeah, even fallen empires just have regular defensive armies. (despite having gene warrior offensive ones when they attack you) You can simply take any planet, even with full fortifications, with like 10 gene warriors and a general with no thought needed.

 

[I_am_Nemo]

People say that Gene Warriors are the end-game armies and everybody always uses them, but I honestly feel like psi warriors aren't as bad as people say. Yes, they do much less damage, but when you compare that to the fact that they heavily reduce the damage output of opposing armies it kind of makes up for it, at least in my experience.

Gene Warriors actually have higher morale damage than Psi armies do (technically, psi warriors are the attachment, not the army), which means they'll break enemy morale faster than the Psi armies, and thus take even less damage. Couple that with more health, and they're just better all around. That said, Psi armies are perfectly viable against anything but Gene Warriors; and even there, you just need to bring a few more Psi armies to the party. Psi armies are by no means bad; the gene warriors just have slightly better stats.

The damage output of the opposing troops is kind of irreverent, 90% of the time you are just fighting regular defensive armies that are pretty crappy. With Gene Warriors you can often attack planets with the fortification fully intact and still win.

Can do that with Psi armies as well, though; you just need a couple more. 12 Psi armies are usually enough to dispense with bombardment in the mid game, late game you might need 15 - 20. The advantage with the Gene Warriors is their higher health, which means that you can push them harder if you need to. The higher damage lets you use fewer gene warriors than you'd need psi armies, but build time aside, army numbers are rarely a limiting factor.

 

[I am Sovereign]

Well at least in most of my games( especially when playing spiritualists) psi warriors were always a good amount of time earlier available to me and gene warriors were realy a late game thing to show up.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Assault armies with the psi warriors attachment are good enough. They'll usually break the morale of defending armies before they kill most of them, reducing their risk in invasion.

And they build way faster than gene warriors so it's less annoying if the transports get caught.

 

[DAKOTA567]

Why the Gene Warrior is the master race:

 

[Pchang]

Defenders have a maximum of 12. Attackers have no maximum. I find a strong or very strong race and built a military academy and clone vats on that planet. If I am militaristic, I will add a virtual combat arena too. I then constantly spam clone armies from that planet. They only take 24 days to build, so in the time it takes to build 1 gene warrior, I can build 12 clone armies. I will start a war with large stack of at least 48 or so clone warriors while building them as fast as possible. I typically end up going from planet to planet invading with between 24 - 96 clone armies at a time (depending on when my replacement armies sync up). With enough numbers, it does not matter what type of armies the defenders have and you don't have to bombard the planet (even if it has a planetary defense shield).

Clone warriors build so fast, I don't mind using them as bait to finally catch AI fleets in a decisive battle (they tend to run away from superior fleets).

 

[Wyvax]

I'm one of those people that actually combines different armies even after unlocking gene warriors. I typically only build one for every invasion force and have a mix of psi armies and a bunch of clones. Xenos on occasion and robots if I'm not spiritualist. Why on earth aren't robots faster to produce then clones I'll never know.

 

[I am Sovereign]

Defenders have a maximum of 12. Attackers have no maximum. I find a strong or very strong race and built a military academy and clone vats on that planet. If I am militaristic, I will add a virtual combat arena too. I then constantly spam clone armies from that planet. They only take 24 days to build, so in the time it takes to build 1 gene warrior, I can build 12 clone armies. I will start a war with large stack of at least 48 or so clone warriors while building them as fast as possible. I typically end up going from planet to planet invading with between 24 - 96 clone armies at a time (depending on when my replacement armies sync up). With enough numbers, it does not matter what type of armies the defenders have and you don't have to bombard the planet (even if it has a planetary defense shield).

Clone warriors build so fast, I don't mind using them as bait to finally catch AI fleets in a decisive battle (they tend to run away from superior fleets).

Maybe attackers should have a maximum too. Too make fortress planets possible which would requiere more waves of attacks necessary. Ofc you could say thats the same as attacking with all forces at the same time just consuming more time and clicks. But a attack maximum would limit their combined damage output and would give some meaning into the quality of your armies as you just cant spam endless assault armies for almost no upkeep and just swarm any planet.

One way to not make it a click-fest would be to have the armies automatically come in waves. When/if the first first group of 12 dies, the next group automatically lands. This automatically continues until there are no more.

Solution for my suggestion found ; D

 

[Pchang]

One way to not make it a click-fest would be to have the armies automatically come in waves. When/if the first first group of 12 dies, the next group automatically lands. This automatically continues until there are no more.

 

[CharlieFox]

Why the Gene Warrior is the master race:

I think gene warriors should definitely be buffed so that they can (almost) singlehandedly win a war against Evangelizing Zealots and defeat an end game crisis. Also they should be able to blow ring worlds

On a related note, you should also be able to give order 66 to your clone soldiers which removes all psi warriors from your nation and switches your government to Empire...

 

[Ashantai]

Since I've never needed more than 12 top level armies, it's rarely important.

 

[MechaThumper]

Psi warriors are functionally equivalent to xenomorphs. There's some differences but not all that much, except for xenomorphs costing close to half what a psi warrior costs. Psi warriors almost cost what gene warriors do and take just as long to build but aren't nearly as good.

 

[Wyvax]

Each army does need a bit of specialization to excel in different roles, (just like the ship classes.) They already have that in the stats but if you brought in some rock, paper, scissors action (with attachments able to tweak or even flip them) then each would really shine IMO. That is of course assuming that the AI is coded to actually USE the different army types.... -_-

Here's my suggestions:
Add a stat for defense, basically like armor for ships, that determines what percentage of damage is ignored and what isn't. Apply it to all armies.
Defense armies: Basically keep them as they are but give them a very high defense rating (duh). Also don't increase morale but do have it so that a broken or routing defense army has a lesser penalty once broken, these people are defending their families and planet from the enemy's flesh reavers, they should be desperately fighting to the last man and the bitter end.

Assault armies: Pretty decent as they are. Give em a meh defense rating and call it good.

Slave armies: Keep them as they are, the cheaper alternative for despots that want to go for speed and pricetag over efficiency. Mediocre armor rating. Maybe decrease build time a little.

Clone armies: Increase price a bit (cloning requires some serious resources to grow an organism that quickly, let alone millions) better morale than assault, less defense.

Robotic armies: IMO needs to be faster and cheaper to produce than clones, but not as cheap as slave armies. Good attack and immune to morale damage. Low defense, (assuming these are more akin to Star Wars battle droids, and.

 

[Wyvax]

Not like the T-1 models from terminator, though an upgrade tech that switches between them for higher damage and defense would be cool). Give them pretty high health to represent numbers.

Psionic armies: Should have the highest morale damage, and pretty decent moral themselves, give them pretty good defense (a la jedi precognition). Devastating against basic armies, slaves and clones, horrible against robotics.

Xenomorph armies: The highest damage rating, and second highest morale damage rating. High health, very low defense however, and is immune to breaking. Ravenous flesh eating monstrosities shouldn't quit till absolutely dead. Give them limited efficiency towards towards psionics (they can't be frightened by mind games but can be confused is my logic.)

Gene Warrior armies: second highest attack, morale damage nearly as good as xenomorphs, very, very high morale, very, very high defense. Basically as super soldiers they should be best overall, but not necessarily best at each stat. Should be able to take out xenos and psionics easily for example, but combined arms force of both xenos and psionics would be a challenge for them to face.


Stupid phone typing messing up my posts!!!!

 

[GamingHUD]

Why the Gene Warrior is the master race:

I see your John-117 and raise you one Garvial Lorken.

OT: I don't think they're necessarily bad but assault armies are sufficient enough for the length of a campaign that you don't really need to bother using other units if you don't feel like it. I generally only switch to Gene Warriors when the option comes up because it often means I don't have to bombard planets first - just take out spaceport & other defenses, then move the fleet on while the Gene Warriors invade.

 

[Milten]

I'm one of those people that actually combines different armies even after unlocking gene warriors. I typically only build one for every invasion force and have a mix of psi armies and a bunch of clones. Xenos on occasion and robots if I'm not spiritualist. Why on earth aren't robots faster to produce then clones I'll never know.

Yeah, me too, but solely for RP purpose. You know, going full weeb with Xenomorphs + PSI warriors against androids. Happens too rare though, mostly it's just garrison pushovers.

 

[Pyramid_Head]

Since all armies are just for RP, there is not a single reason to use psi-warriors when you have genes or basic assault ones. It's just more micro with assault armies.