Why are people so obsessed with landless play

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Not sure who you’re addressing, but this Feb. 12, 2023 post from Wokeg seems relevant to your discussion (bolded italics added):

And they are very diplomatic and very polite. and terrific PR people, that is their job.
They don't do their job wrong, in fact they do it more then correct, but you still haven't given a Feudal Historical Empire that can expand the horizon for ALL.
Other then the same old we need to map paint with even more stacking modifiers. that has been the theme the first 2 years of CK3.

There is a reason feudal empires died out. Even in the Middle East and South Central Asia the few remaining absolute monarchy are trying to change stuff.
Cause it isn't working. majority cause they can't go on rampaging conquest like the old days to avert internal political issue, and just go to war for the slight of reason or whenever they feel like it.
 
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Personally I have never really cared about Republics and Nomads tbh. I would much rather have more fleshed out mechanics for things like the council and the papacy, which would add depth and breadth to every playthrough regardless of your start. New government types are a lot of work for something that players won't really experiance unless they happen to play that government. In other words, I would much rather have only feudal mechanics with a lot of depth and dynamicism than I would both feudal and republics where each one has relatively shallow features because they didn't have the resources to really flesh either one out. Unfortunately, time and resources are finite, and they have to make decisions on what to work on.
And personally to me, I've never really cared about the papacy. As for the landless characters. Aside from the fact that adding landless characters will be the basis for a huge variety of other mechanics, as previously stated. It will greatly expand the modding possibilities. Res Publica didn't have a working gameplay loop precisely because of the lack of landless characters, which was forced to have feudalism as a base.
 
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And they are very diplomatic and very polite. and terrific PR people, that is their job.
FYI: I think their personal charm has led you into a mistake. ;) Most of the devs who come chat with us in these threads, like Wokeg and PDX_Oxycoon, are not doing so as part of their job. They are not part of the Community team; they were not hired for PR. They come here in their free time. Here’s more from the same post I linked previously:
This post has definitely been rambly. I'm not a part of the Community team, nor am I trained PR guy. I'm a geek who loves history and happens to work on this game, writing forum replies in his spare time because we had lots of people saying they felt like they were neither heard nor seen…I'm not trained or paid for this, and I've always been more of a lurker on forums, so I'm probably not gonna be the best at how I put things. I'm not even really trying to be, I'm just trying to be present and to at least occasionally have the conversations folks want to have.
 
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FYI: I think their personal charm has led you into a mistake. ;) Most of the devs who come chat with us in these threads, like Wokeg and PDX_Oxycoon, are not doing so as part of their job. They are not part of the Community team; they were not hired for PR. They come here in their free time. Here’s more from the same post I linked previously:


What is the meaning of Public Relationship .. or PR, precisely what you described in his quote.

And this is the classical example of argueing that still leads to nowhere done past 4 years.
Starts with the basic issue that never get answered. but instead side track to a epeen meter of right or wrong.
End product the none improvement for all, you see today.

Then once in a while somebody posted a nice well formed post that the game direction is not leading someplace, and everybody agrees and then moves on.
Rinse and repeat a process that has been going on at Paradox for a while.
 
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@Drake_Hound : hopefully today’s DD will satisfy your concerns about the game’s direction.

I posted because I wanted to clarify what feedback is most useful to the devs (in terms of specificity), and that the devs who don’t have “Community [something]“ under their usernames are (a) not PR people and (b) here on the forum voluntarily; posting in these threads is not part of their job.

We have lots of new people on the forum who don’t know that already and might misunderstand. :)
 
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@Drake_Hound : hopefully today’s DD will satisfy your concerns about the game’s direction.

I posted because I wanted to clarify what feedback is most useful to the devs (in terms of specificity), and that the devs who don’t have “Community [something]“ under their usernames are (a) not PR people and (b) here on the forum voluntarily; posting in these threads is not part of their job.

We have lots of new people on the forum who don’t know that already and might misunderstand. :)

If this was pre wards and warden, I would have cheered today heavens high, sadly after the hostage mechanic. (nothing to do with work done and coding issue cause they were great) but the implementation of it, I am holding a wait and see attitude.

So call me a pessimist, Legends of the Death first, I do not like the plague, but I do love the Legends (some form of bloodlines and very creative original idea and implementation of it)

Byzantium would also have spiked my hype meter up to heavens high, (even if I am in support of landless, doesn't mean I disaprove of feudal mechanics improvements)

Wandering nobles, yeah that is something I always wanted in CK2, play as EL CID awesome, play as Daenerys in Exile (which was partly implemented in AGOT) play as fellowship in LOTR..

So this expansion normally would have hyped me into heavens, but I will reserve my joy for when I see the implementation of it, since buying or not buying chapter III was never in doubt for me. so they already have a loyal customer in this.
 
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Was hoping to get to the thread before the video trailer went live but I got poked with questions so I'm afraid y'all will have to forgive me for not giving a detailed reply.
The technical hurdles are vast and likely insurmountable, and Wokeg has basically confirmed today that it's not on the agenda due to that issue: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...s-going-to-come-in-2024.1622356/post-29393293.
Imd: it has indeed been a lot of technical work.

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<snip>

It's a cool pitch, and I think it's understandable where it comes from even if it's not technically achievable at all.
Very much agree.
And they are very diplomatic and very polite. and terrific PR people, that is their job.
FYI: I think their personal charm has led you into a mistake. ;) Most of the devs who come chat with us in these threads, like Wokeg and PDX_Oxycoon, are not doing so as part of their job. They are not part of the Community team; they were not hired for PR. They come here in their free time. Here’s more from the same post I linked previously:
Firstly, thank you (I think I'm very rambly and a little boring much of the time but y'know what, I'll take the compliment).

Secondly, man I wish I had PR training. Every now and then Community or someone senior will poke me about a forum thing and I have a mini heart attack wondering if I've broken my NDA or something. Generally it's more like they're interested in how a conversation turned out because they're lurking, but I'm as skittish as a goat.
I posted because I wanted to clarify what feedback is most useful to the devs (in terms of specificity), and that the devs who don’t have “Community [something]“ under their usernames are (a) not PR people and (b) here on the forum voluntarily; posting in these threads is not part of their job.
Through the power of sufficient complaining I do actually get a half an hour on a Monday for forum replies nowadays, which is nice. It. Sometimes takes a bit more than half an hour if I've got time, and if I'm swamped then it's not mandatory, but it's rather pleasant to have a window for it. Still not part of my job officially, just an allowance that's made.

The forums are important, they're where our most dedicated and longest-running fans hang out, and if we have them then we should use them and make time for using them.
Look at that, they needed landless gameplay to do Byzantium.

Just gonna take a victory lap here, don't mind me :D
More or less how it shook out: we were looking to partner stuff with admin play that'd offer good value for money without taking away too much focus. We went through a few potential iterations, many would have risked doing two things mediocrely rather than two things well (y'know, admin gameplay and republics, it's a bit much), and adventurers seemed like the most sensible option since so much of the stuff they require we'd have to do for admin anyway.

Victory lap well earnt.
 
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Was hoping to get to the thread before the video trailer went live but I got poked with questions so I'm afraid y'all will have to forgive me for not giving a detailed reply.

Imd: it has indeed been a lot of technical work.

View attachment 1080943

Very much agree.


Firstly, thank you (I think I'm very rambly and a little boring much of the time but y'know what, I'll take the compliment).

Secondly, man I wish I had PR training. Every now and then Community or someone senior will poke me about a forum thing and I have a mini heart attack wondering if I've broken my NDA or something. Generally it's more like they're interested in how a conversation turned out because they're lurking, but I'm as skittish as a goat.

Through the power of sufficient complaining I do actually get a half an hour on a Monday for forum replies nowadays, which is nice. It. Sometimes takes a bit more than half an hour if I've got time, and if I'm swamped then it's not mandatory, but it's rather pleasant to have a window for it. Still not part of my job officially, just an allowance that's made.

The forums are important, they're where our most dedicated and longest-running fans hang out, and if we have them then we should use them and make time for using them.

More or less how it shook out: we were looking to partner stuff with admin play that'd offer good value for money without taking away too much focus. We went through a few potential iterations, many would have risked doing two things mediocrely rather than two things well (y'know, admin gameplay and republics, it's a bit much), and adventurers seemed like the most sensible option since so much of the stuff they require we'd have to do for admin anyway.

Victory lap well earnt.
Wokeg you're the forum's patron Saint.
I will protect your smile with all my strength
 
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Was hoping to get to the thread before the video trailer went live but I got poked with questions so I'm afraid y'all will have to forgive me for not giving a detailed reply.

Imd: it has indeed been a lot of technical work.

View attachment 1080943

Very much agree.


Firstly, thank you (I think I'm very rambly and a little boring much of the time but y'know what, I'll take the compliment).

Secondly, man I wish I had PR training. Every now and then Community or someone senior will poke me about a forum thing and I have a mini heart attack wondering if I've broken my NDA or something. Generally it's more like they're interested in how a conversation turned out because they're lurking, but I'm as skittish as a goat.

Through the power of sufficient complaining I do actually get a half an hour on a Monday for forum replies nowadays, which is nice. It. Sometimes takes a bit more than half an hour if I've got time, and if I'm swamped then it's not mandatory, but it's rather pleasant to have a window for it. Still not part of my job officially, just an allowance that's made.

The forums are important, they're where our most dedicated and longest-running fans hang out, and if we have them then we should use them and make time for using them.

More or less how it shook out: we were looking to partner stuff with admin play that'd offer good value for money without taking away too much focus. We went through a few potential iterations, many would have risked doing two things mediocrely rather than two things well (y'know, admin gameplay and republics, it's a bit much), and adventurers seemed like the most sensible option since so much of the stuff they require we'd have to do for admin anyway.

Victory lap well earnt.
Wokeg you lovable rogue, I can’t imagine the level of smugness you’ve felt the past couple months as you watched us speculate. Just want to say thank you, this chapter is exactly what I’ve been wanting since launch. I’m totally blown away
 
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I do think that it's extremely useful for future Republic implementations, now that it's been brought up- it gives the opportunity for political dynasties, as opposed to merely landed dynasties. Being able to just chill in the background for a while might be pretty interesting. Something in particular I could see is a 'Mendicant Preacher' style of gameplay; proselytism to important figures was a big part of how faiths spread in certain areas (where it wasn't 'i have conquered you'), so it'd be interesting if you could- say- go and proselytise to the Russians or the Danes about how this cool guy on a cross is cooler than their funny one-eyed magic man. From the opposing side, perhaps it would be a good way to reduce how many random event characters need to be generated- if, say, your attempt to convert can draw in an existing Adventurer preacher, rather than spawning one. Of course, adenturers going to heathen courts don't exactly have much in the way of protection, so it'd be a risky business...

I also really like the point that it gives an opportunity for the 'fall' to take place without just being 'oh your rebels exploded'. There's a mod I vaguely recall that has a setting where you pick a random heir, and I think this sort of thing would be an excellent way to get a similar vibe into the main game; similarly to how you can switch character via Crusade, I could see the occasional event of 'mom, I'm going to go be a crusader/mercenary/varangian/etc now!' letting you switch to playing the underdog again. Even if you go for a quick adventure as a second son and settle down again because you inherited under Confederate Partition, sometimes it's nice to get away from the seat of your power and explore stories outside of that, you know? There's a lot of story-telling opportunity the moment that 'your heartland' and 'your character'- or 'the primary line of succession' and 'the part of your dynasty whose story you tell'- start to diverge.

Which, as a side note, might also make it easier to put more crusaders in our Crusader Kings. Sometimes you don't go and switch to your character in Crusader Jerusalem because you're risking your entire playthrough on not getting ganked by the Abbasids, but if you can keep fighting the fight (I would say 'the good fight' but it's well-known what crusaders are like with their detours and bloody sackings and whatnot), then suddenly you have a reason to go hole up in Cyprus and wait for the next Crusade.

Secondly, man I wish I had PR training. Every now and then Community or someone senior will poke me about a forum thing and I have a mini heart attack wondering if I've broken my NDA or something. Generally it's more like they're interested in how a conversation turned out because they're lurking, but I'm as skittish as a goat.
As somebody who helps out with an indie game, I understand that feeling completely, lmao. Can't imagine how much more 'aaaaaaaaa' is produced when it's for a big successful company, so please have this virtual sympathetic pat on the shoulder.
 
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many would have risked doing two things mediocrely rather than two things well (y'know, admin gameplay and republics, it's a bit much)
Let me stress and underline here, that I'd rather wait a year or two longer, than to get stuff earlier and have it only on a superficial level. To decide on one single thing and do it justice, that was imho the right call. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
 
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Hey everybody, let's get obsessed with Naval mechanics and China again, surely Paradox won't add them to the game (too much work).
 
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