Why are my allies so bad?

[Demoulius]

Hey there folks.

So ive got a question.... But first some setup so you know the situation.

Ive started a federation and got a few allies in there. One was the strongest AI factions in the game with a massive terretory and massive fleet. The others were pretty strong but not as strong. 4 oof our allies in the federation are our vassals, basicly. Now there was a federation that we were opposing and they were basicly the 2nd AI in line for strength. And their 2 vassals which are pretty small. One of their vassals declared one of those 'secret fealty' thingies and im alwasy open for more power and since we were stronger, hey easy win right?

Well thats where things go south. The second a war is declared my allies their AI turns completly potatoe. Theyre incapable of doing....anything. Ive got 5 factions in my federation which are suddenly completly deadweight. They cant even defend their own terretory. Im trying to go on the offensive and ive had to recall my fleets THREE times now because my potatoe allies keep getting ALL of their terretory taken.

Seriously they cant even defeat a single one of the enemiy fleets which leaves me to defeat the enemy federation on my own. Including their federation fleets.

This is impossible to bloody win on my own. I went into the war with 6 factions vs 3 and im the only left who can do....anything. The enemy vassals suddenly went in power as well. Like theyre all 3 roughly equal to me out of the blue. Im faced off against 3 factions AND their federation fleet. Our own federation on the other hand is suddenly not reinforcing the federation fleet anymore and if they even build fleets at all (sometimes a weak fleet is created) its quikly killed off again.

Im tired of constantly having to do everything for my allies. Do they want me to brush their teeth as well? Why are my allies suddenly so incompetent? Its weird...

 

[Masked Ermine]

Hey there folks.

So ive got a question.... But first some setup so you know the situation.

Ive started a federation and got a few allies in there. One was the strongest AI factions in the game with a massive terretory and massive fleet. The others were pretty strong but not as strong. 4 oof our allies in the federation are our vassals, basicly. Now there was a federation that we were opposing and they were basicly the 2nd AI in line for strength. And their 2 vassals which are pretty small. One of their vassals declared one of those 'secret fealty' thingies and im alwasy open for more power and since we were stronger, hey easy win right?

Well thats where things go south. The second a war is declared my allies their AI turns completly potatoe. Theyre incapable of doing....anything. Ive got 5 factions in my federation which are suddenly completly deadweight. They cant even defend their own terretory. Im trying to go on the offensive and ive had to recall my fleets THREE times now because my potatoe allies keep getting ALL of their terretory taken.

Seriously they cant even defeat a single one of the enemiy fleets which leaves me to defeat the enemy federation on my own. Including their federation fleets.

This is impossible to bloody win on my own. I went into the war with 6 factions vs 3 and im the only left who can do....anything. The enemy vassals suddenly went in power as well. Like theyre all 3 roughly equal to me out of the blue. Im faced off against 3 factions AND their federation fleet. Our own federation on the other hand is suddenly not reinforcing the federation fleet anymore and if they even build fleets at all (sometimes a weak fleet is created) its quikly killed off again.

Im tired of constantly having to do everything for my allies. Do they want me to brush their teeth as well? Why are my allies suddenly so incompetent? Its weird...

Are you sure your enemies didn't rent a mercenary fleets? It is one thing I really hate about that part of the game, as the mercenary fleets basically make everyone tank their fleets into a mercenary guild, so they report as pathetic or inferior, and then they just hire a fleet that's twice the size of yours, or something...I really wish we never got mercenary guilds...or at least we had a means of not making playable in our games...

I have noticed a bit of 'AI allies once in federation kinda give up'....some of it I think is because the AI prioritizes building a federation fleet, thus they blow all their alloys on that rather than building their own fleet which makes them fall behind....

 

[Demoulius]

Hmmm I had not considered mercenary fleets. There are alot in my galaxy atm, like about 12 or so. 2 of which are my own creations. Il take a look and see if they got any number of mercs on their payroll. That would explain how they can so quikly get new forces.

My allies dont seem to be building our federation fleet at all. Like. Im not sure WHAT exactly they are doing but defending themselves is certainly not on the list. Neither is attacking the federation that keeps taking their entire terretory....

There is an endgame crisis in the game but I really doubt that theyre trying to attack it, as its on the other side of the galaxy for us.

Them seem to be doing nothing at all. Its like their AI got switched off once the war started :|

 

[Masked Ermine]

Hmmm I had not considered mercenary fleets. There are alot in my galaxy atm, like about 12 or so. 2 of which are my own creations. Il take a look and see if they got any number of mercs on their payroll. That would explain how they can so quikly get new forces.

My allies dont seem to be building our federation fleet at all. Like. Im not sure WHAT exactly they are doing but defending themselves is certainly not on the list. Neither is attacking the federation that keeps taking their entire terretory....

There is an endgame crisis in the game but I really doubt that theyre trying to attack it, as its on the other side of the galaxy for us.

Them seem to be doing nothing at all. Its like their AI got switched off once the war started :|

Have you toggled on the 'follow this fleet' button? If you do that to one of your fleets, it should cause your allies to rally their forces to that fleet (if they can get to it...also is access an issue? Is there a silly starbase blocking their progress and so their pathing just says 'meh...can't be bothered'?)? It might not help the multiple fronts thing, but at least you'll know where their stupid fleets are.

I also...wouldn't be surprised if the AI's fleets aren't engaging the crisis...because the AI tends to get something stuck in their priority craw and then they won't let it go....(for a time the AI would put killing leviathans above attacking hostile war fleets...it was both annoying and useful depending on which side of the AI divide you were on).

 

[Chuunibyou Imouto]

As said, you probably the toggle set for them to follow your fleet, which means they are not defending their own territory at all

 

[Miesha]

Have one durable fleet lead their fleets around and have all your other fleets in a doomstack, that way you got 2 forces you can smash around. If you hire ALL THE MERCS in the galaxy you can use them as a third hammer.

 

[Zagreb 887]

As said, you probably the toggle set for them to follow your fleet, which means they are not defending their own territory at all

I taught the AI behaviour to be fixed about them blindly following players fleets, regardless of anything else?

 

[Druitt]

I taught the AI behaviour to be fixed about them blindly following players fleets, regardless of anything else?

They do seem to hang out with you, particularly if they're small and weak. But there is definitely a noticeable difference once you toggle on "follow me".

 

[UltimateTobi]

If Take Point is active, they'll follow you no matter what.
If Take Point is inactive, they'll death stack on their own and pursue their individual goals.

In either case, it's a significant force nowadays. I don't understand what OP's problem is. If left to their own devices, fed allies tend to stack together and blast everything in their path (unless the opponent has an even bigger stack that flies around).

I agree on one point: they value offensive more than defensive.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

I do wish there was a less extreme version of take point, so that if I want the help of a nearby fleet to handle some space critters I don't cause the withdrawal of all forces engaged in a war on the opposite side of the galactic core.

 

[Demoulius]

There is a follow fleet button?

Well I cant say that I knew about it. I could have pressed it accidentily I suppose but heres the thing: There arent any fleets following me. My AI allies tend to make some fleets but they get killed off quikly. Out of interest though, where is this button located? I cant find it, but it does sound interesting

I think il just concede this game to be honest. The endgame crisis has also nommed up half of the galaxy at this point and im stuck in a war thats raged more then 2 decades that im decisivly losing its an ironman game so its not like I can reset it. My biggest ally will at the very least lose 75% of its terretory if I do a status quo. Another ally might also lose terretory, im not to sure but its not looking good.

I have checked the enemy fleets to check if they use mercenearies. And oh boy do they use mercenaries.... I think half of their fleets are currently all merc fleets and it explains how they can conjure up these fleets right out of nowhere.

Il just take this game as a learning experience and move on. Thanks for the replies

 

[Masked Ermine]

There is a follow fleet button?

Well I cant say that I knew about it. I could have pressed it accidentily I suppose but heres the thing: There arent any fleets following me. My AI allies tend to make some fleets but they get killed off quikly. Out of interest though, where is this button located? I cant find it, but it does sound interesting

I think il just concede this game to be honest. The endgame crisis has also nommed up half of the galaxy at this point and im stuck in a war thats raged more then 2 decades that im decisivly losing its an ironman game so its not like I can reset it. My biggest ally will at the very least lose 75% of its terretory if I do a status quo. Another ally might also lose terretory, im not to sure but its not looking good.

I have checked the enemy fleets to check if they use mercenearies. And oh boy do they use mercenaries.... I think half of their fleets are currently all merc fleets and it explains how they can conjure up these fleets right out of nowhere.

Il just take this game as a learning experience and move on. Thanks for the replies

You might be able to cheese the merc fleets if you can find their home bases....because if you destroy the merc home base the fleets disappear...but depending on what your fleets look like compared to the merc fleets, that may not be viable. Because the merc fleets will immediately (and I mean immediately) jump to home base to defend it if its attacked. But if you're successful you will get a some money and alloys out of it....

Also the take point button is here. It should tell you if it's toggled or not....

 

[Verx90]

there is fine line that will always make AI allied to you during a war always a bit worst .

its because the AI has a set behaviour that cooperate best with other AI. when there is a player that make actions different from what the AI expect, they struggle to cooperate .
i'm not sure if the AI considerate your fleet power too, when preparing plans , but they do considerate your fleet power when declaring war .

 

[Druitt]

Il just take this game as a learning experience and move on. Thanks for the replies

Agreed. I think folks should count on abandoning more games than not in their first 10 or so. It's easy to make a slight miscalculation -- misunderstanding where your bulwark's benefits actually apply, pushing an incursion one system too far, not having your army ready and having someone steal a system out from under you while you were waiting for your army to arrive, and so on.

I think I played it really safe in game #1 or #2 and survived to 2500 but wasn't really in the running. Just a sidekick in a powerful Federation. Then I had a series of games where I pretty much blew it in the first few decades and quit. Finally about game #8, I actually won in 2500, yay!

But just this latest game, I made a mistake and took one too many systems before falling back -- distracting a more powerful AI from my ally -- and also forgot to turn on all of my fleet-power edicts (shields, energy weapons, etc) and got stomped. Fortunately, I'd learned my lesson in game #4 or #5 and abandoned Ironman. Achievements are whacky fun, but when you're learning, a single mistake can basically trash 3-4 hours of playing. So I fell back a year and made slightly different choices and now we've got a huge advantage over the enemy (my single fleet that was slightly inferior is now 50% more powerful and is kicking butt.

And let's not forget my first try at a megacorp, where the first 5 empires I discovered were isolationists, devourers, exterminators, and a criminal megacorp. All hating me and providing me with zero opportunity to establish trade, much less branches. At that point, I just quit and started another game -- same everything else -- and ended up in a game where I had at least a couple of neighbors with which I could to business.

So never play ironman, if you get a really bad start or someone wipes out your fleet in the first few decades, learn the lesson and move on, I say.

 

[Demoulius]

I agree with your message aside from the 'never play ironman mode' part. For starters you cant get achievements if you dont and I do find myself to chase those from time to time. But aside from that it also means your decisions are final and means you have to be abit more carefull with your choices. This forces you to be more mindfull during play and to minimize risks.

Now mind you sometimes the game derps up or does something that (to my knowledge) it shouldnt do so. But game breaking bugs aside (which I thankfully havent unr into) I dont mind the idea behind ironman mode.

It kinda sucks that I had to scrap this game but my early game dident really go all that well to be perfectly honest so starting over is far from the end of the world. I learned some intrinsic things about the game like how the AI responds, the 'follow fleet' button etc so this game wasent a complete waste xD And ofcourse the hours playing a game I enjoy is never a waste either

Now if I can just get the AI in a federation to work in my interest il be all the happier. Something to figure out for the future I guess