Why are Defender's of the Faith restricted to males only?

[User29]

Is there any good reason for this? "Because only men were" seems a poor reason for the game to limit you cause of RNG

 

[ShadowCammy]

Because only men were... historically. It's just the mindset of the Europeans at this time. You had to be an insanely important woman to be able to get that kind of position.
But now, we have a female defender of the faith: Queen Elizabeth II. So maybe females being Defender of the Faith should happen, but myabe late game?

 

[LordNeidhart]

A compromise in order to allow flexibility in the decision while also keeping historical plausability would be to add an event roughly along the lines of "What the hell is this?!" in case a nation with a female ruler tries to claim the Defender of the Faith title. A counterpart for the Pragmatic Sanction of 1713, if you will, although its general effects would have to be discussed. I have always been of the opinion that abstract hard caps and locks for a game such as this are undesirable, and limits are better served when they're based on punishment for trespassing them or the presentation of dilemmas rather than simply the inability to do so.

 

[DmUa]

IMO here are no good reason not to allow females to be DoF's and mind this is coming from a person that switched off WiH DLC.

 

[Sovetskysoyuz]

Because only men were... historically. It's just the mindset of the Europeans at this time. You had to be an insanely important woman to be able to get that kind of position.
But now, we have a female defender of the faith: Queen Elizabeth II. So maybe females being Defender of the Faith should happen, but myabe late game?

"Defender of the Faith" has been one of the subsidiary titles of the English and later British monarchs since it was granted on 11 October, 1521[1] by Pope Leo X to King Henry VIII of England. His wife Catherine of Aragon was also a Defender of the Faith in her own right.[2]

Mary, by the Grace of God, Queen of England, France and Ireland, Defender of the Faith, and of the Church of England and of Ireland on Earth Supreme Head

 

[DmUa]

Eyp, isnt English monarchs still claim DoF title even thou they are technically a heretics?

 

[LikeNothing]

All female monarchs of England since Elizabeth I have had the title Defender of the Faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Style_of_the_British_sovereign

 

[VanguardZero]

It's a pretty bizarre requirement considering it's not really an ecclesiastical position.

 

[moorsonthecoast]

Mary and Elizabeth and the like only have "Defender of the Faith" because Henry VIII was granted the title. It was hereditary, and the rest of his successors did not claim it individually. (Of course they wouldn't have been given it after Henry VIII, but that was also because, barring Mary and a few, they were Anglicans.)

I am curious if women couldn't have been given the title Defender of the Faith or if they just weren't.

 

[Tarroque]

All female monarchs of England since Elizabeth I have had the title Defender of the Faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Style_of_the_British_sovereign

Since Henry VIII this has been a self-proclaimed title.

 

[tobias.mb]

IRL did that title mean anything aside from prestige though? I can't remember any instance where the defender of faith would have actually come to defend a country against heretics / heathen just because he was the dof.

 

[moorsonthecoast]

Since Henry VIII this has been a self-proclaimed title.

Ah, correction noted. I assumed wrongly, then.

 

[VanguardZero]

IRL did that title mean anything aside from prestige though? I can't remember any instance where the defender of faith would have actually come to defend a country against heretics / heathen just because he was the dof.

I don't think the English position is relevant to the DoF status ingame. Like I said, it's not an official ecclesiastical position, so I don't see why women would be barred other than "hurr durr our ancestors were stoopid."

 

[rothamon81]

Something like that should have been implemented in WiH with maybe some sort of extra cost/requirement.

 

[Kirkegaard]

I find it quite logical that woman can't have this title at least for Christianity and Islam since they don't, especially in this time frame rate, woman as real humans. So it is not hard to see why it would be more or less impossible to any woman to get a position where she would have the power and respect also in other countries to claim such an title.

 

[Incompetent]

I can maybe understand the male-only restriction on Catholic defenders of the faith (in fact, it should probably be more restrictive: instead of just claiming it, you should have to petition the Pope to grant it). But it's daft to say that a sovereign who is head of her own national church can't be 'Defender of the Faith'. Yes, Elizabeth inherited the title from her father, who in turn was given the title by Parliament (the original Catholic title was withdrawn in 1530 when Henry broke with the Church). But would it have been any less valid if she'd just proclaimed it herself, or had it granted to her by Parliament or the Archbishop of Canterbury?

Effectively, 'Defender of the Faith' is just a way to record in-game the country that is the premier advocate of a particular religion. It's self-proclaimed and doesn't really represent any historical title. There's no reason for the country that claims it to have any particular kind of government, as long as it's independent and fully capable of diplomatic interactions.

 

[Attelwyn]

Since the Defender of the Faith is supposed to fight to defend their faith I think we can call it a warrior title.
And while we now got some evented female generals, female rules still can't be made into generals, or in other words, hold warrior titles.
I don't agree that it should be like that. But I assume the logic went something like that.

 

[QDI]

I find it quite logical that woman can't have this title at least for Christianity and Islam since they don't, especially in this time frame rate, woman as real humans. So it is not hard to see why it would be more or less impossible to any woman to get a position where she would have the power and respect also in other countries to claim such an title.

Church did not always had the best view on women (responsibility of Eve) but women were considered real human with souls. Mary is an important figure, women could be baptized and saved (in the religious sense) as much as men.

 

[LikeNothing]

IRL did that title mean anything aside from prestige though? I can't remember any instance where the defender of faith would have actually come to defend a country against heretics / heathen just because he was the dof.

The King/Queen of England (since Elizabeth I) is the Defender of the Anglican Faith, so they don't have anybody else to defend besides England itself.

Since Henry VIII this has been a self-proclaimed title.

In game it is also a self-proclaimed title.

 

[Raczynski]

Because only men were... historically. It's just the mindset of the Europeans at this time. You had to be an insanely important woman to be able to get that kind of position.
But now, we have a female defender of the faith: Queen Elizabeth II. So maybe females being Defender of the Faith should happen, but myabe late game?

"Defender of the Faith" as implemented in the game is a complete fantasy anyway. It never existed. Using history as a justification on this is completely ridiculous.