Why all the Portugal nerfs?

[panther29]

Not true. The Iberians had clashing border claims, small enough that no province is even remotely representative of the 'skirmishes' between them that resulted in adjusted borders. Hell, these border adjustments were usually the result of an external war where they were co-belligerents on opposing sides.The Iberians never went to war with each other in the EU4 timeframe with the goal of conquering sizable chunks of land from the other. The Iberians went to war with each other when there was a chance to play the dynastic game via military intervention. If anything the game needs to give the Iberians more chances to play the dynastics game.

I know we're getting a Castillian Succession crisis but I think I'd rather it be an event chain driven war between Aragon and Castille and Portugal and Leon with Leon and Castille representing pro-Portugal and pro-Aragon nobles(as the war historically went) for the potential of a Portugal-Castille PU, a Aragon-Castille PU, or a compromise peace that results in Portugal-Leon/Galicia/Sevilla and Aragon-Castille/Navarra/Asturias. I'm going to be disappointed if Portugal still doesn't have an option to do anything in the Iberian Wedding; heck, historically it was Portugal arranging the 'Iberian Wedding' with Aragon as the interloper that enforced a victory via intervention. Give all the Iberians historical friendship modifiers as well as a generic 'PU intervention' event when one of the states has a weak heir or no heir. You want Iberian wars, well this is how Iberian wars tended to go unless they were cobelligerents on opposing sides.

Yes please. I would even pay for this if it was a DLC.

 

[VI Imre]

Not at all, their proportional power is pretty accurate. It's just that EU4's rival/diplomacy system cannot accurately represent actual 15th century diplomacy (because no game possibly can) and needs the occasional stopgap solution to make some historical outcomes possible.

I mean, AI states tend to rival neighbours, and with Portugal's only neighbour being Castile they'd probably rival them 99% of the time. There was a time when AI looked less at proximity when deciding on rivals and this was (rightfully) near-universally despised by players because they couldn't predict AI rival behaviour at all. Thus why you need the historical friends modifier if you want the possibility of Portugal and Spain co-existing.

Yet Poland and Hungary can't coexist even though they were actually historical friends. They rival one another 99% of the times at game start and usually Poland grabs Eastern Hungary very soon.

Your reasoning is shallow and uses double standard.

 

[JOD]

Yet Poland and Hungary can't coexist even though they were actually historical friends. They rival one another 99% of the times at game start and usually Poland grabs Eastern Hungary very soon.

Your reasoning is shallow and uses double standard.

If I'm not mistaken the reason for that balance was the Polish decision over Lithuania. Giving them the historical friends modifier or the restoration of union casus belli on Hungary they should rightfully have at the start date pushes Poland from powerful into some whole other tier of unbalanced.

So the reasoning is consistent. One deviation (Hungary and Poland being unfriendly) to allow another historical accuracy (Poland's union with Lithuania).

Though with that said, I rarely see Poland go more than 1-2 provinces into Hungary.

 

[VI Imre]

If I'm not mistaken the reason for that balance was the Polish decision over Lithuania. Giving them the historical friends modifier or the restoration of union casus belli on Hungary they should rightfully have at the start date pushes Poland from powerful into some whole other tier of unbalanced.

So the reasoning is consistent. One deviation (Hungary and Poland being unfriendly) to allow another historical accuracy (Poland's union with Lithuania).

Though with that said, I rarely see Poland go more than 1-2 provinces into Hungary.

And Wiz told that in another thread. Well I made numerous tests with Poland being friend of Hungary. The results were better than vanilla, with positive effects like Poland had a higher chance at integrating Lithuania, Hungary successfully fighting or at least defending her territory against the Habsburgs, the Ottomans conquering Egypt before pushing northwards, etc. etc.. But I'm getting offtopic, after the patch I'll make some new testcases and post them in a new thread.

It simply can't stand that PI adds historical friends for balance reasons but not for the sake of actual history. Then call it "because reasons" modifier instead of "historical friends".

 

[migalhone]

And Wiz told that in another thread. Well I made numerous tests with Poland being friend of Hungary. The results were better than vanilla, with positive effects like Poland had a higher chance at integrating Lithuania, Hungary successfully fighting or at least defending her territory against the Habsburgs, the Ottomans conquering Egypt before pushing northwards, etc. etc.. But I'm getting offtopic, after the patch I'll make some new testcases and post them in a new thread.

It simply can't stand that PI adds historical friends for balance reasons but not for the sake of actual history. Then call it "because reasons" modifier instead of "historical friends".

Wasn't the motive for not making Poland and Hungary "historical friends" the fact that too often it would create an unmovable block of power in Eastern Europe because of Poland+Lithuania+Hungary? (As if Poland having a "LOLZ i win" button wasn't enough...)

 

[BFTeixeira]

Wasn't the motive for not making Poland and Hungary "historical friends" the fact that too often it would create an unmovable block of power in Eastern Europe because of Poland+Lithuania+Hungary? (As if Poland having a "LOLZ i win" button wasn't enough...)

The Historical Friends modifier is more of a "We can't (or won't bother) make a historical balance work between those nations, so we plug a number to make it work". Kind of Einstein's Cosmologic Constant, which he later stated was the biggest mistake in his academic life.