I believe they rely on trade income to be able to sustain an army with numbers over they're FL. That's why I think the new trade routes will bring even more problems in the first 150 years or so in the AI Portugal game.
Why all the Portugal nerfs?
- Thread starter poloport
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
AFK experiment. 1509. We appear to have installed a pretender (we even got 4 new regiments out of the deal). Still allied to Castile.
"Confirmation bias" folder:
"Confirmation bias" folder:
- 1
^ As grommile said, an important component of score is tech level, so eventually you'll fall off entirely. You could probably make it to 1821 and beyond while still existing though.
Not true. The Iberians had clashing border claims, small enough that no province is even remotely representative of the 'skirmishes' between them that resulted in adjusted borders. Hell, these border adjustments were usually the result of an external war where they were co-belligerents on opposing sides.The Iberians never went to war with each other in the EU4 timeframe with the goal of conquering sizable chunks of land from the other. The Iberians went to war with each other when there was a chance to play the dynastic game via military intervention. If anything the game needs to give the Iberians more chances to play the dynastics game.
I know we're getting a Castillian Succession crisis but I think I'd rather it be an event chain driven war between Aragon and Castille and Portugal and Leon with Leon and Castille representing pro-Portugal and pro-Aragon nobles(as the war historically went) for the potential of a Portugal-Castille PU, a Aragon-Castille PU, or a compromise peace that results in Portugal-Leon/Galicia/Sevilla and Aragon-Castille/Navarra/Asturias. I'm going to be disappointed if Portugal still doesn't have an option to do anything in the Iberian Wedding; heck, historically it was Portugal arranging the 'Iberian Wedding' with Aragon as the interloper that enforced a victory via intervention. Give all the Iberians historical friendship modifiers as well as a generic 'PU intervention' event when one of the states has a weak heir or no heir. You want Iberian wars, well this is how Iberian wars tended to go unless they were cobelligerents on opposing sides.
Last edited:
- 4
- 2
.You're right. In the game's timeframe, they attacked each other for PU attempts. Taking sizable chunks was during the portuguese reconquista (ended more then 200 years earlier than the castilian one).
About the new Event/Disaster, i'm just going to wait to see how it works.
The Campaign system linked in my sig could solve the Portugal - Castile problem. Iberian nations could be scripted to very rarely select a Campaign goal to conquer the Iberia region, choosing instead to focus in exploration, colonization, and trade (sometimes N Africa or Italy). They would still conflict with each other and go to war, but without claims on each other or CBs to take Iberian territory (instead fighting over trade and colonies). Iberian Wedding is enough to help Spain still frequently form.
Last edited:
- 1
'It is one of the most remarkable features of the age of discovery that the lead in exploration was taken by the small and economically backward kingdom of Portugal. With a population of about one million in the fifteenth century, a dearth of fertile agriculture land, no tradition in long sea voyages and few good harbours, Portugal seemed to have little to recommend it when compared with, for example, the rich and economically sophisticated Italian states. Virtually its only contributions to European trade was fish, salt, cork and olive oil' Years of Renewal European History 1470-1600
If anything Portugal should be nerfed by alot, if you want it to be historical. It was only ever luck that allowed it to expand to a colonial empire. It should certainly not have its power increased, in any way, as its current status is very ahistorical.
If anything Portugal should be nerfed by alot, if you want it to be historical. It was only ever luck that allowed it to expand to a colonial empire. It should certainly not have its power increased, in any way, as its current status is very ahistorical.
- 10
- 1
.png){kind=avatar}
You can't just handpick a source like that. Especially not one so disdainful and ill-informed...
"Small and economically backward..." -> I'll give you the "small", but it was only "economically backward" if you're comparing with the trading and banking practices of the Italian city-states. Otherwise, it was just as "economically backward" as everyone else in Europe that wasn't Italian, Flemish, Dutch and Hanseatic...
"no tradition in long sea voyages" -> Seriously!? I guess that an European country fishing cod just off the coast of Canada doesn't count...
"few good harbours" -> As it stated, we were a "small" country. "Few good harbours" seems a natural consequence of that. Unless it's about a lower density of good harbours comparatively with other European countries, in which case I'd like to see who had such wonderful natural advantages that could take the leading role in exploration...
"Virtually its only contributions to European trade was fish, salt, cork and olive oil" -> Please, do mention how other European medieval kingdoms had far more varied exports than small, backward Portugal...
The Decently Informed Forumite: 2/10 - Would not read...
Last edited:
- 4
Everything in Europe was backwater compared to Italy. By 1444 the Portuguese had already established themselves as a strong naval presence who dominated trade up and down the Atlantic coast from northwestern Europe (the only part arguably not a backwater or Italy) down through to trading with Africa. Their exploration and trading ambitions had already begun in the 20s; are they supposed to just give Portugal tons of bonus ships and naval tradition to somehow "balance" them for being the premier explorers and traders along the Atlantic by 1444?
Also, Portugal's land wasn't total garbage, it just wasn't producing for export at this time other than what, fruit and wine? The administrative system and state monopolies still meant what they had was resulting in more crown money than sinkholes like feudal France.
- 3
It's that 'poverty'(read: densely populated with relatively few opportunities for advancement or wealth) that allowed Portugal such success; they were a country with a very strong naval tradition, that happened to be the most fit state for exporting its surplus people to parts of the world outside of Europe.
perhaps a solution could be achieved by nerfing the Goa event and providing Portugal with new events that would essentially cheat her way into colonizing areas such as Cape Verde, Elmina etc. before Portugal actually gets her first colonist? (the events should only fire if Portugal doesn't have a colonist.)
at least new French ideas nerf her out of one relation slot.
i kind of hope for the return of French vassals in a future patch when development levels and manpower are inevitably tweaked on the provincial level. perhaps lowering the manpower of directly owned French provinces could offset the large number of regiments provided by vassals? (or through other means, like increasing the vassals' LD, although their vying for independence seems ahistorical too.)
however, it may turn out that the return of France's vassals will not be possible without turning them into a whole new kind of entity (not unlike daimyos) which could model the unique Carolingian/Capetian fragmentation of France more effectively than the current vassal system.
Last edited:
- 2
As Magaen mentioned, the same is also true of other colonizers. It's not a problem intrinsic to Portugal, Portugal's just the more likely to fall foul of it.
So either 1) Colonizers are under powered and need buffing, 2) Colonial nations need nerfing* so army size better reflects the time period or 3) Liberty desire needs tweaking.
*Admittedly this maybe alleviated after Common Sense releases but for now, I include it.
Only buffing Portugal here is akin to treating the symptom and not the cause.
- 1
It seems to me Portugal expands into Africa fast enough. My last Castile attempt I had to watch carefully to make sure they didn't take Moroccan provinces I wanted.
I agree with the new provinces though.
I agree with the new provinces though.
Possibly, or a 'League of the Public Weal' disaster/event could simulate how the French vassals made one last stand for their autonomy.
- 1
exactly. (come to think of it, the League of Public Weal can actually be modeled with high-LD vassals. and if French vassals' LD was somewhat above 50% from 1444, then perhaps they wouldn't send troops to help France, effectively nerfing her.)
- 1
I would appreciate a split of the Alentejo province into two (Évora and Beja maybe?).
Also, the Beira province terrain should be hilly. Could also benefit from a split into 2 provinces (something like Guarda and Castelo Branco, although splitting Alentejo is more important IMO).
Perhaps they might consider that in a future patch.
Otherwise, as a Portuguese person i'm ok with Portugal's 1444 setup as it is.
Also, the Beira province terrain should be hilly. Could also benefit from a split into 2 provinces (something like Guarda and Castelo Branco, although splitting Alentejo is more important IMO).
Perhaps they might consider that in a future patch.
Otherwise, as a Portuguese person i'm ok with Portugal's 1444 setup as it is.
- 1