The only Hainault in Achaia died in 1318. In 1337 the Principality was firmly under Angevine control...Aryaman said:
Lots of interresting politics in the area though, I agree on that
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Lots of interresting politics in the area though, I agree on that
Don't forget the Byzantines down in Mistra and up in Thessalonica. And they have a civil war to deal with in the period too...
Havard said:
So what about Grand Duchy of Lithuania, is it playable?
Al least during Mindaugas ruling? I hope we will have chance to play for Jogaila or Vytautas laike two separate leaders of two separate states.The problem is that many not bad games (like MTW, Knights of the Cross) are very far from historical authenticity . Hope this mistake will be not present in Crusader Kings.
Central and Eastern Europe's medieval history cannot be fully understood without some familiarity of Lithuania's medieval history. Medieval Lithuania included also the territory of modern Belarus and the greater part of Ukraine and had strongly influenced the historical fate of Poland and the other countries in the region.
Lithuania was first mentioned in 1009, formed a state ca. 1183, and developed into a powerful empire in the 14th century. It survived and gained power in the constant fight with the Teutonic Knights, supported by almost the whole of Catholic Europe, the Tartar hordes and Muscovite Russia.
In 1386, Polish nobles had elected ruler of Lithuania - Jogaila (Jagiello), King of Poland (territory of Poland that time was 1/6 of Grand Duke of Lithuania territory ), who was christened then. He christened Lithuania one year later. This laid the foundation for the future Commonwealth of Poland and Lithuania. Jogaila's successors were successfully expanding their political influence during the 15th century.
In the end of the Middle Ages almost the whole Central Europe was ruled by the dynasty of the Lithuanian origin - Jagiellonians. The lands of the three brothers Jagiellonians: Wladislas, the King of Bohemia and Hungary, John Albert, the King of Poland, and Alexander, the Grand Duke of Lithuania, formed a Jagiellonian political system, which existed in 1492-1526.
Tnx
The problem is mainly that so far only Christian, feudal dynasties are playable. Since scenario starts during Mindaugas' rule I doubt they will be in. (My guess is it would be easy to mod a scenario to make the Lithuanian ruler playable, though so far I don't know for sure how).Siautas said:So what about Grand Duchy of Lithuania, is it playable?
Being more historical correct than MTW won't be a problemSiautas said:
As in all games or simulations some compromises will have to be done. Hopefully this won't be too much of an issue...
tnx for quick respond. Your answer sounds sad for me and (I think) all other my fellows. Look forward for this mod's (used some in TWM). But I think to make Lthuania playable nation is more simple way :wacko: ...and this would gaine more respect for this product and their creators.
...sorry, but, in my point of view, it seems Your product will be not too far in front of MTW
I'm very happy that some companys are making less "compromises"... For example Knights of Honour, where we probably will have posibility to play for Grand Duchy of Lithuania.
Let me guess: which one of these two products will choose Lithuanian custumer and other suporters of Grand Duchy of Lithuania all over the world (as I see there are some people from US interested in this problem in Your forum as well)?
...yes, your answer is absolutly right...and at least your company will lose some extra money... but as You wrote "in all games or simulations some compromises will have to be done"...
it's sad, but...Your right is to make (compromises), our right - to choose...
by the way, this forum is really very interesting and professionally administrated...
@peace
Havard said:Being more historical correct than MTW won't be a problem
...sorry, but, in my point of view, it seems Your product will be not too far in front of MTW
I'm very happy that some companys are making less "compromises"... For example Knights of Honour, where we probably will have posibility to play for Grand Duchy of Lithuania.
Let me guess: which one of these two products will choose Lithuanian custumer and other suporters of Grand Duchy of Lithuania all over the world (as I see there are some people from US interested in this problem in Your forum as well)?
...yes, your answer is absolutly right...and at least your company will lose some extra money... but as You wrote "in all games or simulations some compromises will have to be done"...
it's sad, but...Your right is to make (compromises), our right - to choose...
by the way, this forum is really very interesting and professionally administrated...
@peace
Siautas said:...sorry, but, in my point of view, it seems Your product will be not too far in front of MTW
Me thinks few will agree with you.
I think you misunderstand him. The "compromises" mentioned were those compromising between historical accuracy and gameplay fun. Including Lithuania as playable would be fun but historically inaccurate as they apparently were not Christian in 1337. Thus, including Lithuania would be a comprimise where the historical accuracy would be the loser. As Håvard said, this game focus on Christian feudal dynasties, and is not just EU in the Medieval period. Not that I don't think it would not be interesting if others were playable too.I'm very happy that some companys are making less "compromises"... For example Knights of Honour, where we probably will have posibility to play for Grand Duchy of Lithuania.
Let me guess: which one of these two products will choose Lithuanian custumer and other suporters of Grand Duchy of Lithuania all over the world (as I see there are some people from US interested in this problem in Your forum as well)?
...yes, your answer is absolutly right...and at least your company will lose some extra money... but as You wrote "in all games or simulations some compromises will have to be done"...
it's sad, but...Your right is to make (compromises), our right - to choose...
Styrbiorn said:Me thinks few will agree with you.
I just had in mind point that Lithuania is not playble nation in that game like in TWM and nothing more
Hope u can't ague that Lithuanian feudal dynasties existed at that time and Grand Duchy of Lithuania had one of the bigest teritorry in Medieval Europe.
It's more than normall that we Balts whant to play for our ancestrys with whom we are very proud
@peace
Well, maybe it's just too hard to include playable LIT non-christian dynasties in this game.
But sure, it's dissapointing. After all, those guys conquered or influenced most of the eastern Europe. So to leave those guys out is like to make a big hole in history.
But sure, it's dissapointing. After all, those guys conquered or influenced most of the eastern Europe. So to leave those guys out is like to make a big hole in history.
I don't see anyone arguing anything about Lithuania here except for the fact that as they were not Christian at the time of the scenario they will most likely not be playable. I am (at least partly) familiar with medieval Lithuanian history, and I know what they managed to doSiautas said:I just had in mind point that Lithuania is not playble nation in that game like in TWM and nothing more
Hope u can't ague that Lithuanian feudal dynasties existed at that time and Grand Duchy of Lithuania had one of the bigest teritorry in Medieval Europe.
It's more than normall that we Balts whant to play for our ancestrys with whom we are very proud
@peace
This is a design decision and has nothing to do with wanting to play them or not.
Knights of Honour looks like an interresting game (although I'm not overly thrilled by the look of the click-fest RTS battles in some screenies...) but as far as I can see they have not released any informatiuon about who will be playable or not.Siautas said:
I must mention that Paradox isn't "my" company. I am not a Paradox employee but a mere fan, like the rest here...Siautas said:...yes, your answer is absolutly right...and at least your company will lose some extra money... but as You wrote "in all games or simulations some compromises will have to be done"...
it's sad, but...Your right is to make (compromises), our right - to choose...
It's everyones right to make choices, yes. I only ask that one check out the actual product instead of basing the choice on some (misunderstood) comments here, months before release. Styrbjørn's interpretation of my previous remark is correct.
Thank you. We do our best
Havard said:
I said probably...and...
Siautas:..."So what about Lithuania, Mr.Frank Fay?"
Mr.Frank Fay: "It is in"
http://forum.sunflowers.de/showthread.php?s=&threadid=354&perpage=25&pagenumber=2
screenshot...
http://www.avault.com/news/avscreenshots.asp?pic=knighthonor&num=3&story=11212003-1134
Havard said:I must mention that Paradox isn't "my" company. I am not a Paradox employee but a mere fan, like the rest here...
It's everyones right to make choices, yes. I only ask that one check out the actual product instead of basing the choice on some (misunderstood) comments here, months before release. Styrbjørn's interpretation of my previous remark is correct.
ok . Then my phraze comes to whom it may concern WellcomeHavard said:Thank you. We do our best
I think it could happend during game play...as well like Russia will be FinlandStyrbiorn said:Whoot, Finland is Russian??
You know, in the period before the Swedes came I would think they were taxed by Novgorod...Styrbiorn said:Whoot, Finland is Russian??
Havard said:
Not really, they weren't taxed by anyone AFAIK. But I was merely joking anyway - all borders are strange, which means it's not some kind of startup screenie.
Havard is right, the many Finns were taxed by Novgorod before the Swedes took over.
Demetrios said:
I also read some time ago that many Finish words for church-related stuff had clearly orthodox origins. Can't remember the source though...
Of course Lithuania will be in the game; it was the goal of many more Crusades than any other place in the world - and remarkably enough, survived! (Perhaps the peasant merchants of Gotland sold so many and good weapons to them?)