Who Wants to make a cold war mod?

[77Hawk77]

Just thought of a cool idea. The Space Race wouldn't just be for propaganda purposes, it would let you build spy satellites. I'm not sure if it could be coded, but it could work by having a circle of view the diameter of about Ireland piercing the Fog of War, moving around the globe every few hours. You can place them by hand, and they move on a diagonal or straight line. Low Earth Orbit satellites reveal unit stats, but move very fast, meaning it's hard to catch the what you want to see. Geostationary satellites always stay on the same spot on the equator, but cannot reveal unit stats, only their movement. Molniya orbits have great visibility of the US and Soviet Union, but only for a little bit, then they go across the world. Further tech advances increase the radius of the circle.

I am not sure if that is possible, for now my plan is to have space program stuff be national focus tree. With 2 trees, utility focus and exploration focus, utility will give bonuses to intelligence and missile production, while exploration will give some research and propaganda bonuses. Might also add flags that says "Few satelites" "many satelites" that give more accurate numbers for how many troops the enemy has.

I just love this idea, it would be great to have a cold war mod based on Hearts of Iron IV. I just think that the mod should have a start date right after that the world war ends, so the game wouldn't lose many events like Mao's rise to power, Korean war, Stalin sucession dispute and so on. Also, in my opinion, the game should end in 1991 for its symbolical meaning, independently of the playthrough.

I am planning on making tech until the end of the 1980s, but i think the game doesn't stop even if you play past the scripted dates.

While I'd really like to see a good cold war game, Hearts of Iron seems better designed to be a World War III simulator than a Cold War simulator. A cold war game should really be all about supporting your idealogical side in intra-state conflicts, and I don't know how easy it will be to do that with HOI. In some ways, Victoria's mechanics might be a better fit for the Cold War.

I don't like the idea of a game right after ww2 for several reasons.

1. Only US has nukes, which means that any war will just be US nuking them and then game over.
2. A lot of nations were formed which is harder to script to be right than just having the east and west block already formed.
3. It's really hard to simulate the devestation right after ww2, should europe start off with 80% of their factories destroyed and how do we simulate that?
4. The wars that came at the point except the chinese civil war wasn't that interesting from a tactics perspective, the korean peninsula has only 2 zones, so as soon as someone crosses it, it starts deteriorating the other country.
5. Basically no independant colonial nations to play as for almost 20 more years if not more, you can't even play as india in 1945, while in 1965, there are many more options for nations to play as.

I want people to be able to play as third world countries and make them great if they want, by getting support from USSR or USA. If you start in 1945, there is basically no choice as whom to play as.

 

[lpotheo]

you can't even play as india in 1945, while in 1965

Why ? Wouldn't there be like a RAJ thing like in HOIIV normal ? with a decision on "Asking your Independance to Great Britain, leading to UK accepting and the Partition happening, or if UK refuses there's a colonial conflict like France with Algeria.
I think it's better like this don't you think ?

 

[filippos22]

I can offer my help with geopolitics, but I can not get myself directly involved, atleast for now. I am too busy with Modern Mod 4.

 

[77Hawk77]

Why ? Wouldn't there be like a RAJ thing like in HOIIV normal ? with a decision on "Asking your Independance to Great Britain, leading to UK accepting and the Partition happening, or if UK refuses there's a colonial conflict like France with Algeria.
I think it's better like this don't you think ?

An independant india would be really integral to asian politics, not having it there would also make a lot of soviet diplomacy meaningless, I guess you can play as RAJ like in Hoi4 in theory, but that isn't realistic so even if I made an earlier start RAJ would be part of the british empire which it was, you wouldn't be able to play pakistan either.

I can offer my help with geopolitics, but I can not get myself directly involved, atleast for now. I am too busy with Modern Mod 4.

Not sure what you mean with helping geopolitics Could you make the leaders of your country and what not?

 

[lpotheo]

you wouldn't be able to play pakistan either.

why not ?

 

[filippos22]

I can help creating the national focuses and events. We call national focuses "geopolitical focuses" in Modern Mod so that is why I said Geopolitics. And I also can help with Greece.

 

[lpotheo]

I could help for National Focuses and even events too. I really like History and Alternate history, which i think should have a place in the mod too, I will even go for History Studies next year so if any of ya folks need help, I'm here

 

[77Hawk77]

why not ?

Wasn't a country yet

I can help creating the national focuses and events. We call national focuses "geopolitical focuses" in Modern Mod so that is why I said Geopolitics. And I also can help with Greece.

Sounds good, If i remember correctly Greece had a military junta that had a troubled run, some events around that would be quite fun.

The nations I have decided to do national focus trees for btw are:

USA
Soviet Union
UK
France
China
India
South Africa
Angola

2 Superpowers, 2 colonial nations, 2 asian powers and 2 african countries in perpetual conflict. 4 "left leaning" and 4 "right leaning"
If people will help make more national focus trees later on, i'll probably add as many as i can, and call it a "minors improvement sub mod"

 

[lpotheo]

Wasn't a country yet

I mean, yes but what if after the event for the partition you can choose to go with Pakistan or India like it is already in the game for Civil Wars ?

2 Superpowers, 2 colonial nations, 2 asian powers and 2 african countries in perpetual conflict. 4 "left leaning" and 4 "right leaning"
If people will help make more national focus trees later on, i'll probably add as many as i can, and call it a "minors improvement sub mod"

Why would only these countries get some ? I must say I agree for USA, Soviet, France, UK, China and all but I think more "minor" nations should get some like North and South Vietnam or Korea, Egypt, Israel, Iran etc... And maybe adding a somewhat generic tree for some Nations like Minor Arabs, Africans, Asians, and other places that didn't really had such an impact on the Cold War.

 

[77Hawk77]

I mean, yes but what if after the event for the partition you can choose to go with Pakistan or India like it is already in the game for Civil Wars ?

No i don't think that will be possible, because i don't think civil wars can end in 2 countries.

Why would only these countries get some ? I must say I agree for USA, Soviet, France, UK, China and all but I think more "minor" nations should get some like North and South Vietnam or Korea, Egypt, Israel, Iran etc... And maybe adding a somewhat generic tree for some Nations like Minor Arabs, Africans, Asians, and other places that didn't really had such an impact on the Cold War.

There will be a generic tree, i am only choosing eight, becaue hearts of iron 4 comes with 8 unique focus trees, and already 8 might be more work than i can feasibly do alone in a reasonable amount of time. Middle eastern nations are high on my list after those 8 if I get help the next would be Israel, Egypt, Iraq and Iran.

 

[lpotheo]

No i don't think that will be possible, because i don't think civil wars can end in 2 countries.

I think it might be a good idea to ask the dev

becaue hearts of iron 4 comes with 8 unique focus trees,

Is it possible to go with more than 8 trees ?

 

[77Hawk77]

I think it might be a good idea to ask the dev

Is it possible to go with more than 8 trees ?

Yes it's possible and I might ask a dev about it, but i am pretty sure that's how it works. You can't make peace with a civil war country only annex them.

 

[dasVerruckteJoe]

i think a 1950 start date would be cool too. the main nations of europe and india are already in place. korean war too could be simulated well

 

[lpotheo]

i think a 1950 start date would be cool too. the main nations of europe and india are already in place. korean war too could be simulated well

Yeah, but you miss the Chinese civil war which could change the whole Cold war if Kuomintang had won. 1946 would be better in my opinion.

 

[jju_57]

No thank you. Been there done that with EvW.

See here is the dirty little secret that no one wants to admit too. The game mechanics can't support a Cold War mod with any type of accuracy when it comes to things like missiles, helicopters, long range attacks, super fast jets nuke subs ASW, ABM etc. The engine is built to have two sides fight over a common front and be next to each other. The Cold War doesn't fit into this at all, especially the farther you go in the future.

And IF repeat IF you did get it to work then you still have problems like how to simulate Vietnam where you can easily move your troops and massive firepower and take control of a province. This is standard HOI mechanics but how do you represent that doing it doesn't mean squat?

Sorry but a cold war game has to be built from the ground up. Impossible to actually get it right based on a HOI engine. And NO those previous mods were nice attempts but utterly failed in actually reflecting the real Cold War. Even EvW after spending countless hours couldn't get these mechanics right.

 

[magritte2]

I don't actually think detailed military systems are required for a cold war game at all. The espionage, political and economic systems are far more important. The vast majority of military conflicts would likely have only indirect player involvement.

 

[77Hawk77]

No thank you. Been there done that with EvW.

See here is the dirty little secret that no one wants to admit too. The game mechanics can't support a Cold War mod with any type of accuracy when it comes to things like missiles, helicopters, long range attacks, super fast jets nuke subs ASW, ABM etc. The engine is built to have two sides fight over a common front and be next to each other. The Cold War doesn't fit into this at all, especially the farther you go in the future.

And IF repeat IF you did get it to work then you still have problems like how to simulate Vietnam where you can easily move your troops and massive firepower and take control of a province. This is standard HOI mechanics but how do you represent that doing it doesn't mean squat?

Sorry but a cold war game has to be built from the ground up. Impossible to actually get it right based on a HOI engine. And NO those previous mods were nice attempts but utterly failed in actually reflecting the real Cold War. Even EvW after spending countless hours couldn't get these mechanics right.

That's a very defeatist attitude, i wasn't planning on making a simulator, just the hearts of iron experience with a different start date. If you wanna go full into vietnam as USA you can do that, and if you think that the province supply limit allows for a giant armored push, then you're welcome to try

 

[jju_57]

That's a very defeatist attitude, i wasn't planning on making a simulator, just the hearts of iron experience with a different start date. If you wanna go full into vietnam as USA you can do that, and if you think that the province supply limit allows for a giant armored push, then you're welcome to try

Clearly you don't understand the problem. In HOI game I take a province and it's mine. It stays mine till an enemy unit retakes it. I can leave it empty and it remains my province. So take all enemy provinces and you win. This is not how Vietnam worked.

In the Cold War the game has to mimic the following types of conflict which are almost all different:

1) Korea,
2) Vietnam,
3) Arab-Israeli wars
4) Afghanistan
5) India- Pakistan
6) Bush wars in Africa
7) Actual major European war between NATO- Warsaw Pact.

And please don't get me started on how the naval fights have to change or how helicopters can fly over a province to attack other provinces.

The AI can't handle it. Not defeatist, just realistic. You need a whole new different game.

 

[Bennyy]

7) Actual major European war between NATO- Warsaw Pact.

I really think if the mod wants to work, it needs to only bother focusing on this scenario. The minor was simply aren't significant or large scale enough to justify a HOI game.

 

[77Hawk77]

And please don't get me started on how the naval fights have to change or how helicopters can fly over a province to attack other provinces.

The AI can't handle it. Not defeatist, just realistic. You need a whole new different game.

I'll try to be creative, and you don't have to get started, i understand you don't like the idea, you don't have to support it.