Who Wants to make a cold war mod?

[Matt the Czar]

Good luck Hawk, hope it goes well . I'm muddling away on my own naval things, but if I do anything that is useful to you, you're welcome to it. You will need to consider the impact of guided missiles on naval, air and strategic warfare (V2s should hopefully be moddable enough to manage this for strategic warfare at least, the other two may or may not be easy to shoehorn into HoI4's systems). On the by, 1965 seems a very late date to 'start' a cold war mod - I've always had the Berlin airlift as the 'start' of the cold war, and then Korea, the Vietnamese fight for independence and the Malayan emergency, amongst others, as the early wars/insurgencies.

The trick will be finding a way to make guerilla warfare work, as you've got that all the way through the period, be it Vietnam and Cambodia in the 60s and 70s or Afghanistan in the 80s. Good luck .

The problem with a cold war mod is that for a player, nukes will hurt, but it won't be the end of the world. You have no pops to worry about, and all factories and infrastructure can be rebuilt. MAD would completely destroy much of western civilization, something neither the Soviets nor the Americans wanted. A player wants war and doesn't care about civilians dying and I don't think you can replicate MAD (complete enviromental and human catastrophy, government institutions ruined and complete destruction of all major cities) in HOI4 which can easily make a cold war mod very shallow. I think Victoria 2 is a much better game to make a cold war mod for. It even exists, called "New World Order": https://www.reddit.com/r/paradoxplaza/comments/413vrb/new_world_order_nwo_mod_for_victoria_2/

Yeah, It'll probably be a bit shallow, but people probably want to nuke everything. HOI isn't really meant for long term campaigns anyway.

 

[Evan05]

The problem with a cold war mod is that for a player, nukes will hurt, but it won't be the end of the world. You have no pops to worry about, and all factories and infrastructure can be rebuilt. MAD would completely destroy much of western civilization, something neither the Soviets nor the Americans wanted. A player wants war and doesn't care about civilians dying and I don't think you can replicate MAD (complete enviromental and human catastrophy, government institutions ruined and complete destruction of all major cities) in HOI4 which can easily make a cold war mod very shallow. I think Victoria 2 is a much better game to make a cold war mod for. It even exists, called "New World Order": https://www.reddit.com/r/paradoxplaza/comments/413vrb/new_world_order_nwo_mod_for_victoria_2/

Can't you make it that a nuke reduces a state's infrastructure to zero, and give insane attrition?

In order for a Cold War mod to work, nukes must be fundamentally changed. Simply a national unity hit, damaged infrastructure, and a disorganized army isn't going to cut it. Hopefully nukes are are modable in that fashion.

 

[Matt the Czar]

Building on that, different types of nukes, tactical and stragetic.

 

[77Hawk77]

The problem with a cold war mod is that for a player, nukes will hurt, but it won't be the end of the world. You have no pops to worry about, and all factories and infrastructure can be rebuilt. MAD would completely destroy much of western civilization, something neither the Soviets nor the Americans wanted. A player wants war and doesn't care about civilians dying and I don't think you can replicate MAD (complete enviromental and human catastrophy, government institutions ruined and complete destruction of all major cities) in HOI4 which can easily make a cold war mod very shallow. I think Victoria 2 is a much better game to make a cold war mod for. It even exists, called "New World Order": https://www.reddit.com/r/paradoxplaza/comments/413vrb/new_world_order_nwo_mod_for_victoria_2/

I was thinking that using a strategic nuke would not just destroy but remove factories if possible, however, everytime you nuke someone You lose, some unity or gain dissent, while the enemy gains some unity or lose dissent. The person sending nukes will lose more than the person being hit is getting.
What this would mean as a mechanic is basically, that if you nuke someone, and they nuke you back, you can nuke each other quite a few times, before your unity is gone, but if you nuke someone and they can't nuke you back you'll be on Zero unity quite fast.

It's just an idea, but i am seriously considering how to make nukes an absolute last option.

Building on that, different types of nukes, tactical and stragetic.

I plan on making tactical nukes, strategic nukes, and air dropped nukes.

Tactical nukes will be missiles with short range and will be devastating to divisions like 1000 soft and hard attack.

Strategic nukes will be long range missiles, that can't be moved around once deployed (think ICBM) and will do a lot of strategic damage, but won't be useable vs divisions

Air dropped nukes will do a lot of strategic damage, and also soft and hard attack, depending on the missions, however just like in Hoi4 vanilla will require air superiotity to drop them.

Most starting nukes in 1965 will be airdropped, with a tiny amount of ICBMs operational and a few more SRBMs.

 

[dasVerruckteJoe]

I was thinking that using a strategic nuke would not just destroy but remove factories if possible, however, everytime you nuke someone You lose, some unity or gain dissent, while the enemy gains some unity or lose dissent. The person sending nukes will lose more than the person being hit is getting.
What this would mean as a mechanic is basically, that if you nuke someone, and they nuke you back, you can nuke each other quite a few times, before your unity is gone, but if you nuke someone and they can't nuke you back you'll be on Zero unity quite fast.

It's just an idea, but i am seriously considering how to make nukes an absolute last option.



I plan on making tactical nukes, strategic nukes, and air dropped nukes.

Tactical nukes will be missiles with short range and will be devastating to divisions like 1000 soft and hard attack.

Strategic nukes will be long range missiles, that can't be moved around once deployed (think ICBM) and will do a lot of strategic damage, but won't be useable vs divisions

Air dropped nukes will do a lot of strategic damage, and also soft and hard attack, depending on the missions, however just like in Hoi4 vanilla will require air superiotity to drop them.

Most starting nukes in 1965 will be airdropped, with a tiny amount of ICBMs operational and a few more SRBMs.

bring on nwo3. hopefully one day we might get some 1950s dlc

 

[77Hawk77]

Well, i'll make some draft maps and see how big the differences are as a map type, once the first starting date as been done and i got a gauge of how long it takes i might consider making a 1950 starting date aswell.

 

[Axe99]

I was thinking that using a strategic nuke would not just destroy but remove factories if possible, however, everytime you nuke someone You lose, some unity or gain dissent, while the enemy gains some unity or lose dissent. The person sending nukes will lose more than the person being hit is getting.
What this would mean as a mechanic is basically, that if you nuke someone, and they nuke you back, you can nuke each other quite a few times, before your unity is gone, but if you nuke someone and they can't nuke you back you'll be on Zero unity quite fast.

This is an interesting mechanic, and I like the vibe .

On the tactical side, I'm fairly sure (dodgy memory and all that) the US and USSR developed some fairly novel nuclear technologies, like land mines and artillery. Not sure if worth including in the mod, just mentioning in case useful.

 

[77Hawk77]

This is an interesting mechanic, and I like the vibe .

On the tactical side, I'm fairly sure (dodgy memory and all that) the US and USSR developed some fairly novel nuclear technologies, like land mines and artillery. Not sure if worth including in the mod, just mentioning in case useful.

I think they even had some in space for a short while, or atleast planned on it, before it was banned in a treaty.
I deliberately ignore nuclear artillery because a lot of the shells were actually not very good, and their active components deteriorated, i think during the 1960s USA got rid of 5,000 nuclear artillery shells or so, they were also very low yield, i found it difficult to think of a way to represent it realistically while also being fun, so i am choosing just not to.

If i can find a way to represent nuclear mines I will, but this might also be hard, maybe as a unit with a suicide mission that can't move or atleast move extremely slowly.

 

[77Hawk77]

I thought maybe someone would be interested in this diagram i made, it shows the starting airforce inventory of the USA, and will be what the US nation starts with in my mod.
I've also been working on something like this for the USSR, and for navy stuff.

 

[dasVerruckteJoe]

maybe you can get some inspiration from here https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-world-order-2.561583/

 

[77Hawk77]

maybe you can get some inspiration from here https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-world-order-2.561583/

The ministers will probably be very helpful, i bookmarked the thread, thank you.

 

[13Patrick]

You all will be surprised, but right now I am making a mod for HoI4, which also includes the Cold War. It is called "Project Truman" (the name is a subject to change). The full version of the mod will cover the period from 1880 to 2020 (as it was already stated, the Cold War will be included). The first version, which will probably be released summer 2017 will cover the 1936-1962 period.

At this moment I am preparing graphics for my mod.

 

[Bennyy]

I think its important to mod HOI4 with a firm grasp on what the game is designed for: ~2 years of buildup followed by ~10 years of war (at the extreme). So a generic cold war setting would not work in my opinion due to the games main focal point, an international all out war, not happening.

Therefore I believe the most realistic way of making this work would be to think up a cold war gone hot scenario, where a historic flashpoint causes the outbreak of war between the Warsaw Pact and NATO. The MAD bluff is called and neither side has the balls to press the button, leading to a massive conflict in Europe, which then cascades into the Pacific, south Asia, Africa and even South America.

Don't leave it as too much of a sandbox, the nature of HOI means you need a focal point, in WW2 that point is Danzig/Czechoslovakia. And in this mod it needs to be Cuba/Korea/Vietnam/Germany.

Good luck though, I'd love to see it come off well.

 

[13Patrick]

This is a full list of military conflicts, which are related to the Cold War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_related_to_the_Cold_War

Any questions?

 

[dasVerruckteJoe]

hoi4 has a feature that acts like defcon. when the globe reaches 100% aggression war breaks out

 

[77Hawk77]

It will be interesting to see how it can be modified.

 

[magritte2]

While I'd really like to see a good cold war game, Hearts of Iron seems better designed to be a World War III simulator than a Cold War simulator. A cold war game should really be all about supporting your idealogical side in intra-state conflicts, and I don't know how easy it will be to do that with HOI. In some ways, Victoria's mechanics might be a better fit for the Cold War.

 

[dasVerruckteJoe]

if victoria 3 had hearts of iron style combat it would work

 

[Docas13]

I just love this idea, it would be great to have a cold war mod based on Hearts of Iron IV. I just think that the mod should have a start date right after that the world war ends, so the game wouldn't lose many events like Mao's rise to power, Korean war, Stalin sucession dispute and so on. Also, in my opinion, the game should end in 1991 for its symbolical meaning, independently of the playthrough.

 

[Matt the Czar]

Just thought of a cool idea. The Space Race wouldn't just be for propaganda purposes, it would let you build spy satellites. I'm not sure if it could be coded, but it could work by having a circle of view the diameter of about Ireland piercing the Fog of War, moving around the globe every few hours. You can place them by hand, and they move on a diagonal or straight line. Low Earth Orbit satellites reveal unit stats, but move very fast, meaning it's hard to catch the what you want to see. Geostationary satellites always stay on the same spot on the equator, but cannot reveal unit stats, only their movement. Molniya orbits have great visibility of the US and Soviet Union, but only for a little bit, then they go across the world. Further tech advances increase the radius of the circle.