Who wants to have cultures in the game?

[Axe99]

@Axe99 The question is, what does adding culture in add to gameplay?
See below

About the Partisans, it would make it much easier. You would just have to make an event like: culturegroup = Serbian + 50% revoltchance. And tada you have partisans.
Why is everyone so resistant towards cultures? They have been in all other paradoxgames.

Thing is, though, you could have different levels of resistance for states or provinces of the same culture. Just using culture to measure unrest is just as rough and inaccurate (if more inaccurate) than using cores and claims.

I'm not resistant against culture - I wouldn't be unhappy if it was in the game - but I can't see a case for the extra detail that would be there, or a point to having it in there from a gameplay perspective. In CK and EU, it's used as a way of measuring integration into a nation, but there were well integrated cross-cultural nations in the HoI time period, so using culture to give tax/manpower maluses a la these two wouldn't help much. In Vicky 2, culture is used to both restrict access to political institutions and social reforms (neither of which are in HoI) and as a way to manage pops and the economy (again, both not in HoI). Culture could be used to look at resistance in-game, but I doubt it would do a better job than the systems that have been used in the past, and more work for no gain doesn't seem to make a lot of sense, not least when there are fairly large potential pitfalls (relating to things we can't discuss here) in including culture in things.

 

[Sharp163]

In a game like EU4 that spans 400 years, culture is very important. In a game like HOI4 that spans 15 years, culture is not really that important.

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

@Axe99 Just using culture to measure unrest is just as rough and inaccurate (if more inaccurate) than using cores and claims.
It would be like different models or companies for countries. It would not only server gameplaypurposes but also give some historical flavor. The reason I want it is because I hate when the game is too "scripted". Adding more game mechanics would give much more paths and you wouldn't have to write dozens of events.
There are countries which have don't have claims or cores on their own culture provinces (e.g. guangxi clique or Austria). It would serve the gameplay a lot if we had cultures there.

@Sharp163
I know that, but cultures where never that important in these 400 years than in these 15 years.

 

[agus92]

@Axe99 Just using culture to measure unrest is just as rough and inaccurate (if more inaccurate) than using cores and claims.
It would be like different models or companies for countries. It would not only server gameplaypurposes but also give some historical flavor. The reason I want it is because I hate when the game is too "scripted". Adding more game mechanics would give much more paths and you wouldn't have to write dozens of events.
There are countries which have don't have claims or cores on their own culture provinces (e.g. guangxi clique or Austria). It would serve the gameplay a lot if we had cultures there.

@Sharp163
I know that, but cultures where never that important in these 400 years than in these 15 years.

What the game needs is some granularity in the core system (something already stated in the forum). The binary system core/no core is too innacurate and rough.

And IMO cultures can be bypassed with a granular coring system (which would have similar goals, but would be far more difficult to implement and tweak).

 

[agus92]

In a game like EU4 that spans 400 years, culture is very important. In a game like HOI4 that spans 15 years, culture is not really that important.

I don't fully agree. I think culture is imoortant, since it is always a factor deciding relations, and eventually, coring. But since it's main usage would be the coring system, culture can be easily integrated into it, without the need of a redundant system.

I know this might be too much nit-picking, but I think it's what the majority of the people who disliked OP thinks, and my statements could help him understand the POV of the rest.

 

[PanosB3]

The goal is that you get a higher attrition even in claimed and core provinces. Now tell me why cultures should NOT be in the game please

Couldn't that be achieved by making provinces that you don't have rightful claims on to have increased attrition? I don't really see how cultures can assist in that.

 

[Anichent]

Anything that can be achieved by cultures in such a short game, that is more about politics, ideology, and war, can be achieved through cores, claims, and partisans.

 

[Sharp163]

Anything that can be achieved by cultures in such a short game, that is more about politics, ideology, and war, can be achieved through cores, claims, and partisans.

Why aren't you a mod yet?? I always see you on the forums

 

[wisecat]

If we are talking about partisans IMO terrain type should be a factor - it is much more easy for any resistance groups to hide in forests or urban territory, than in steppes, so forest, mountain, hills, jungle IMO should have extra partisans, whereas plains should have less.

 

[Sharp163]

If we are talking about partisans IMO terrain type should be a factor - it is much more easy for any resistance groups to hide in forests or urban territory, than in steppes, so forest, mountain, hills, jungle IMO should have extra partisans, whereas plains should have less.

While you have a good point, I must respectfully disagree with your post as you are derailing the thread... And no one was talking about that

 

[Aries666]

While you have a good point, I must respectfully disagree with your post as you are derailing the thread... And no one was talking about that

To be fair this thread serves no other purpose than to provoke arguments on topics that are best left alone.

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

@Aries666 To be fair this thread serves no other purpose than to provoke arguments on topics that are best left alone.
I don't think so. It gives me also more ideas. You know, they ae most likely not going to implent cultures, but I can see here what other ways there are instead of a core non core system. Here we actually show gamemechanics that msot of us didn't know yet. It doesn't have to be left alone just because of the name culture

@PanosB3 Couldn't that be achieved by making provinces that you don't have rightful claims on to have increased attrition?
Yes it could, but it isn't accurate enough and it sometimes mess up reality. If Poland has cores on german and ukrainian provinces they get no malus, because the game thinks these provinces are polish. Same goes for germany when it has cores on Posen and Wartheland.

 

[PanosB3]

@Aries666 To be fair this thread serves no other purpose than to provoke arguments on topics that are best left alone.
I don't think so. It gives me also more ideas. You know, they ae most likely not going to implent cultures, but I can see here what other ways there are instead of a core non core system. Here we actually show gamemechanics that msot of us didn't know yet. It doesn't have to be left alone just because of the name culture

@PanosB3 Couldn't that be achieved by making provinces that you don't have rightful claims on to have increased attrition?
Yes it could, but it isn't accurate enough and it sometimes mess up reality. If Poland has cores on german and ukrainian provinces they get no malus, because the game thinks these provinces are polish. Same goes for germany when it has cores on Posen and Wartheland.

The fact that they have claims on, doesn't mean that you wont have attrition, you still have but if you have claims there the population there is supporting your war effort with a minority that doesn't. As thus cultures are not needed at all.

 

[PanosB3]

Can you the OP just let it go, its obvious that cultures don't have much potential in this game and this thread doesn't go anywhere by having him suggest ideas that are the same with the core/claim/partisan systems.

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

This discussion will really lead to nowhere . It is NOT obvious that cultures don't have much potential in this game. That is just your opinion and I have mine.
I think you also didn't understand what I meant regarding the core system. I hated it that some countries have cores on provinces with a different culture (in reality) and others have no cores on provinces with the same culture.

Edit: Let's not argue over the topic if we should have cultures or not, ok?
But everyone, if someone wants to have them please say something. Thats the question of the topic

 

[PanosB3]

But everyone, if someone wants to have them please say something. Thats the question of the topic

Judging from all the replies+disagrees on your posts I would say that there is no point of discussing since you are the only one making a case for adding cultures into HOI4.

 

[PanosB3]

I hated it that some countries have cores on provinces with a different culture (in reality) and others have no cores on provinces with the same culture.

So quote on quote from you: Every country can have claims on provinces that have the same culture?

So Portugal can have claims on all of Brazil?
So Spain can have claims on all of south America?
So Greece can have claims on Armenia and Georgia?

Please elaborate how this makes sense.

 

[Axe99]

Can you the OP just let it go, its obvious that cultures don't have much potential in this game and this thread doesn't go anywhere by having him suggest ideas that are the same with the core/claim/partisan systems.

While I'm in the "we don't need cultures" camp, I don't think there's anything wrong in discussing whether they should be in the game or not - we can always read other threads if we're not interested in the discussion .

 

[Rudolf Hessbart]

@PanosB3 So quote on quote from you: Every country can have claims on provinces that have the same culture?
Actually I modded some scenarios in Darkest Hour so that Spainand Portugal have claims on some american countries. Armenians and Georgians have nothing to do with greeks by the way.
@PanosB3 Judging from all the replies+disagrees on your posts I would say that there is no point of discussing since you are the only one making a case for adding cultures into HOI4.
I don't think I am the only one who wants them. I think I am the only one who wants them alot. But I wouldn't have expected that so many people are so resistant towards that topic . I know you said that you wouldn't have a problem if they where in the game, but what's the point of this discussion then?

 

[agus92]

@PanosB3 So quote on quote from you: Every country can have claims on provinces that have the same culture?
Actually I modded some scenarios in Darkest Hour so that Spainand Portugal have claims on some american countries. Armenians and Georgians have nothing to do with greeks by the way.
@PanosB3 Judging from all the replies+disagrees on your posts I would say that there is no point of discussing since you are the only one making a case for adding cultures into HOI4.
I don't think I am the only one who wants them. I think I am the only one who wants them alot. But I wouldn't have expected that so many people are so resistant towards that topic . I know you said that you wouldn't have a problem if they where in the game, but what's the point of this discussion then?

Spain claims on South-America are ok, Spain cores are not. And if I understood correctly, your culture proposal is an analogy to cores.

While a good culture system would be awesome, it would be so hard to implement (even define!) that it's better to discretize it's influence on the other systems and let be implemented manually.