Who wants to be Welsh?

[Shadow Reaper]

Well i've started making a Welsh 'mod' (for version 1.03b). As well as making the country, i'm going to try and add Welsh events (possibly one that starts a Welsh revolution, maybe based around the Rebecca Revolutions going OTT). If anyone has any suggestions for events, i'd be happy to consider them. I might need a hand in scripting them also, as i'm not too familiar with how they work.

Here's a couple of screenies:

ATM it can be released by the UK as a satellite nation (and in turn allied with the UK), which can be slightly annoying still technically being under the English thumb. Plus they start off as a Constitutional Monarchy, and with the Liberals in charge. I think any welshmans aim would be to become a Socialist Republic, rather than live under the English Monarchy!! I thought to myself, well if the Scots and Irish can have they're own countries in the game, why not the Welsh? I mean they've got it worse, seeing as they're a principality and not a kingdom (unlike Scotland and England). So, being of unsound mind (i'm English after all) I gave the Welsh independence I'm trying to get the country to be socialist minded after being released from the UK atm, but they're sticking with being Conservative... I'm expecting an event is definately going to be needed Perhaps along the line of Netherlands vs Belgium in 1836.

Wales replaces the U00 tag, its culture is British (didn't get round to making a Welsh culture (which I think is needed along with a Scottish one) and religion Protestant. It basically comprimises the state of Wales, and I put a few claims on West England (Chester, Shrewsbury and Bristol) just for fun

I started a new unitname list for them (in Welsh I might add), this is how it looks so far:

INFANTRY - Mythical Names
U00;0;'Y Ddraig Goch' Division - 'The Red Dragon'
U00;0;'Seintia Dafydd' Division - 'Saint David'
U00;0;'Brenin Arddhir' Division - 'King Arthur'
U00;0;'Penddraig' Division - 'Head Dragon' or 'Head of the Dragon'
U00;0;'Cadwaladr' Division - An Ancient Celtic King

CAVALRY - Fancy Horsemen Names
U00;1;'Eryri Farchogion' Division - 'Snowdonian Riders' (after the Mountain)
U00;1;'Y Ddraig Goch Frachogion' Division - 'Red Dragon Riders'

MAN-'O'-WAR - Welsh Heroes
U00;9;Cadwaladr
U00;9;Glyndwr
U00;9;Gruffydd
U00;9;Iorwerth

FRIGATES - Welsh Cities/Counties
U00;11;Caerdydd
U00;11;Aberystwyth
U00;11;Abertawe
U00;11;Caerffili
U00;11;Sir y Fflint
U00;11;Castellnedd Port Talbot
U00;11;Pen-y-bont ar Ogwr
U00;11;Powys

If anyone has any suggestions for names/corrections (they have to be in Welsh really, it shouldn't be too hard to find an online translator if your unable to do it yourself), preferably for later units too, such as battleships/cruisers/destroyers etc etc. I leaderfile would be good, if any of you know some high-ranking welsh soldiers in the Viccy period?

So, if anyones really interested i'll carry on doing work for it. Maybe one day the Welsh can take New South Wales and a few other colonies and make its own empire free of the shackles of Imperial England, or make an uber-celtic nation by 'joining' with Ireland and Scotland!!(ah, theres an idea for a next mod) (which is bad ) Of course, it won't be easy.

Any questions/suggestions?

 

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I've been waiting for something like this.

 

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I really like this idea, being a Welshman myself, but also because Wales, moreso than Scotland or even Ireland (until the turn of the century), had a history of political and civil disobedience during the 19th century. As for suggested events, there are quite a few to choose from. The Tolpuddle Martyrs could be linked to transportation and hence give an independent Wales some claim or influence in Australia. The Rebecca Rioters would, as you say, make for an interesting event, but it would be hard to simulate the effects of their movement IMO, as they arose as a reaction to the turnpike system primarily. Maybe they could be triggered if certain sliders are set under taxation, maybe if lower class taxes are too high, as these are the groups that were primarily affected. Perhaps the single most significant would be the Chartist movement, which was national, but many of the leaders of whom, such as John Frost and Zephaniah Williams, were Welsh. In my hometown of Newport (Casnewydd) there is a building to this day where the Chartists were gunned down by beseiged government troops. The Chartist Petition was one of the largest political issues of the 1830`s and 40`s and had a big influence on the later liberals and on the Reform Acts. I think that if the UK player chooses the historical option in these events, that is, to shoot the Chartist, then the revolt risk in Wales, especially South Wales, would increase drastically.
Other suggested events would be colonisation of Patagonia (Trelew, modern Argentina), industrial development (hard to believe, but Merthyr Tydfil was briefly the most industrial town on earth for part of the 19th) which can be justified when we remember that South Wales had some of the most extensive coalfields in the world in the 19th and strong private enterprises in shipbuilding in Newport and Cardiff and steel and chemicals in Newport (again) and Port Talbot. Also, Methodism took of in Wales in a big way, partly as a byproduct of industrialisation, so maybe some religous events would also be in order to document the growth of Wesleyianism.
I also agree that an independent Wales would have strong socialist tendencies during this period, though I do think that, per capita, conservatism would still be the norm, as centuries of anglosaxon occupation and dominion had certainly taken their toll.
Anyhow, this post is too long, so I will say no more for now, suffice to say that I am very interested in this mod, and that if you need and help or more detailed suggestions, let me know, as I would be more than happy to oblige and help in any way I can.

 

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Also, as part of the possible industrial event series for Wales, it might be worth bearing in mind that some of the earliest and most developed railroads of the early 19th century were in South Wales, a situation which arose from the necessity to transport bulk goods like coal and steel from the valleys to the workshops of southern England. One of the largest magnates of the century, Robert Owen, made his fortune from a privatised rail network in South Wales, with subsidiary interests in a number of colierys I might add. He was an interesting character, in all, not least because of his abortive prison reforms and philanthropic tendancies.

 

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New names that you might use:

Heroes and famous individuals (mostly from Arthurian legend):

Arthur (old Welsh meaning, roughly, bear): the greatest hero and legend of post-Roman Britain, quite possibly a Welshman if he did indeed exist.
Bedwyr (English Bedivere): a knight of the Round Table
Bran (meaning raven in Welsh): a supposed King of ancient Britain
Gwalchgwyn/Gawain: a knight of the Round Table
Geraint: a knight of the Round Table
Gwenhwyfar (Welsh form of Guinevere): the legendary first lady of Camelot
Mabon (meaning son in Welsh): an important Celtic god
Myrddin (Welsh form of Merlin): probably the most famous semi-fictitious wizard of them all (though there aren`t that many...)
Nimue: sometimes cited as the name of the lady of the lake
Peredur (English Percival): a knight of the Round Table

Miscellaneous other names:
Aeron, Angharad, Aranrhod, Ceridwen, Dylan, Enid, Goronwy, Lleu, Owain, Pryderi, Rhiannon, Urien, Yvain.
There are loads more I could add with a little research, as Welsh and Celtic legend in general are rife with gods and goddesses and mythical heroes that might add character to the names of Welsh units.
I suggest following a nautical tradition maybe and naming ships after women. There are lots of (IMO) very beautiful female names in the welsh language.

 

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Sorry to take over this thread, but you have piqued my interest.
Here are some more names you might consider:

Place names (for ships etc):
Caernarfon, Trefynwy, Casnewydd, Brecon, Argoed, Caerleon, Beddgelert, Beaumaris, Aberhonddu, Aberconway, Dolgellau, Dryslywn, Glynebwy (Ebbw Vale), Ffestiniog, Gelligaer, Harlech, Caergybi (Holyhead), Treffynnon (Holywell), Kenfig, Llanbedr (Lampeter), Kidwelly, Llandaff, Llanarth, Llandudno, Llangattock, Machynlleth, Margam, Aberdaugleddyf (Milford Haven), Trefaldwyn (Montgomery), Arberth, Castell-Nedd (Neath), Trenewydd (Newtown), Croesoswald (Oswestry), Hen Colwyn, Penfro (Pembroke), Pontardulais, Aberafan (Port Talbot), Porthmadog, Rhaglan, Rheaeadr, Rhymney, Rhyl, Llanelwy (Saint Asaph), Yr Wyddfa (Snowdon), Ystradgynlais.

Also, with regard to adding a new Welsh culture, there are a few viable options. One would be to create a new generic Celtic culture, which might replace Irish and be applied to provinces in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Or you could create a Welsh nationality by replacing one of the existing, unused nation tags, i.e. Hawaiian, or Icelandic. There is a thread which explains how this could be accomplished, check here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155906

If you just replaced these two, you could have the distinct Scottish and Welsh cultures you have mentioned. The only downside of this is that, historically, Britain was pretty homogenous in the nineteenth century in terms of purpose and national identity i.e. Britain as an institution was generally considered to be higher in merit than any of its constituent nations. In other words, most people considered, at this time, being British to be more significant and noteworthy than being Scottish, Welsh, even English, probably on account of the prestige and relative dominance that Britain held on the world stage. But, as a nod to pure authenticity, I do support separate nationalities for the home nations, its just it might take a bit of balancing to make it work without detracting too much for the historicism of the game as a whole.

 

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I love this idea but just one thing to point out. If you're going to make a Welsh and Scottish culture, you might as well change British to English. You think that would be right or not? If the Welsh and Scottish are seperate in culture than their is no British really, just English

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Wow Anglosaxon, I wasn't expecting quite that response! Thats certainly something helpful information! If you could give me some female names, i'd probably use them for the Battleships, Cruisers and Dreadnoughts.

As with cultures, you raise a good point. If Welsh and Scottish were added, then so would English. Which would make British as a culture pretty much useless. However, Australia and New Zealand both use British as they're basic culture. So, I would have to keep thinking about this one, although changing cultures is pretty easy... A Celtic Culture could work, especially if theres a chance of setting up a Celt 'super' state.

If theres any way you could explain some events in detail and email them to me i'd be grateful, I could start writing up events and then i'll post them here. I've already got a few written down to do, like Hugh Owen's "Letter to the Welsh People" and the expansion of the coal fields in South Wales (perhaps increasing coal mining efficency for Wales, and turn the fish resource in Cardigan into a coal one). An event setting up of the University Colleges in Aberystwyth, Bangor, Cardiff, and Swansea.
As I said before, i'll also do a revolt event in the UK event file. And if Wales is released by the UK i'll make a 'referendum' event whereas they can choose to change to a Republic (angering Britiain, making poorer folk happy, ?slight militancy for richer classes?), setup they're own Monarchy(angering Britain, keeps richer folk happy, ?slight militancy for poorer folk?), or keep the Queen as Head of State(good relations with Britain, ?richer folk very very happy?, ?poorer folk riot?)[/i].

Perhaps even a novel event for the state of Ohio (which I believe has a high proportion of Welsh decendents in it), or part of it, to ask to become Welsh. Of course, thats going to be the last one I do :rofl: The same can go for new South Wales and other parts of Australia, but they're much more likely to happen.

So basically all that needs doing is events and finishing of the Unitname file, and the consideration of the culture and uber-celt mod.

Oh and I really need some Welsh Generals, preferably with stats!

 

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As with cultures, you raise a good point. If Welsh and Scottish were added, then so would English. Which would make British as a culture pretty much useless. However, Australia and New Zealand both use British as they're basic culture. So, I would have to keep thinking about this one, although changing cultures is pretty easy... A Celtic Culture could work, especially if theres a chance of setting up a Celt 'super' state.

I think it would be better to go with the generic Celtic culture actually, much as it galls me in some ways. To complement this, the British culture should be renamed English, or better, I think, Anglosaxon, as this term would better represent those pops in other nations who have Anglosaxon culture, if not English nationality. With the colonies, I think this would work well, and it would be easy to script a few events whereby, due to factors such as emigration, transportation and so forth, Celtic pops would move to the colonies of Britain, notably, as you state, to Australia, New Zealand, Ohio and Patagonia. In certain circumstances, it might be possible for these emigrant pops to ultimately become the cultural majority in their respective states, which is something that wasn`t too far from the truth in parts of Southern Australia during this period, and it isn`t inconceivable that it might have happened elsewhere too. This, in turn, might give rise to conditional events whereby Wales gains a legitimate claim over certain provinces, to the chagrin of Britain, I suspect, but it is plausible situation none the less. I think this configuration is the best option in order to maintain some semblance of game balance and without buggering up the performance of Britain too badly, which would, I think, spoil a game so firmly entrenched in history. I think Britain should also have the Celtic culture added, which would account for the extent to which the Celtic nations had been sucessfully integrated into Britain. Likewise, I think Wales and Scotland should also have the Anglosaxon nationality, as this was a reciprocal relationship after all and a response to centuries of extensive contact and effective English hegemony.
As for the names you requested, I will make a text file later on and send it to you by e-mail. I agree that a feminine convention would be good for the heavier ships, with place names for the smaller vessels and mythical and patriotic names for the regiments. There is certainly plenty of material to work with here, so we should get a really good variety. As for generals, that will take a little more reseach, but I will look into it and send you more information later when I have some. A few notable names do spring to mind, esp. Lord Raglan, one of the main officers portrayed in Zulu, of whom one of my uncles is a descendant. There are a lot of decorated Welsh officers who served in South Africa during the late 19th century, including many ranking ranking officers from the Boer War, the heroes of Rourke`s Drift etc. Plus, IIRC, I think Welsh officers were also quite integral in the Assamese (Burman) War and the Opium Wars with China, as well as in India, but I need to confirm these theories. Anyway, speak to you soon.

 

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Oh, and I think in regard to Welsh claims in England, I agree with Shrewsbury and Chester but not Bristol. Chester, definately, as it represents modern Cheshire and South Merseyside, and there are to this day, a very large number of displaced Welsh people and their descendants in both these regions, particularly in Chester itself, Deeside and the Wirral peninsula. I think, in fact, that this would justify adding a small Celtic pop to Chester to represent this small but significant minority. Likewise Shrewsbury, which roughly represents Shropshire (Salop at this time if I am not mistaken) and your own county, Worcestershire, as well as parts of Gloucestershire to look at Shrewsbury placement on the game map. Certainly, I know of very large numbers of Welsh people in Gloucestershire and Worcestershire, many in the Forest of Dean region, and large parts of modern Shropshire were Welsh at this time, notably Oswestry, which is essentially a completely Welsh town that happens to now be in England (as opposed to my town of Monmouth, which is pretty much an English town in Wales!). Again, a small Celtic minority pop and a Welsh claim on Shrewsbury would work well here I think.
Bristol though is more problematic. Bristol represents, IMO, the region of Avon, Herefordshire, and bits of Wiltshire and Somerset in game. While there were a lot of people of Welsh extraction in Hereford (and continue to be), there aren`t many (that I know of) in the other parts of this region. Also, politically, the people of this part of the world were staunchly imperial, and the borders were never actively disputed or contested unlike with Shrewsbury and Chester, so I think that giving Wales a claim to this region would be ahistorical, though it might be possible to gain one as a result of events later in the game. Maybe, though, a small Celtic pop in the province would be sufficient to represent the Welsh people in the Forest of Dean that falls within Herefordshire.
Anyway, just my thoughts, considering the best comprimise between game balance and historical accuracy. Hope this helps.

 

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Finished my big list of Welsh feminine names for battleships, cruisers and dreadnoughts (god, I really want a Welsh dreadnought to play with!). Lots of nice sounding and mythical names there, plenty of variety. Going to start on patriotic hero names next for the regiments, then do some more place names for the smaller ships if you would like. Pass me your email address and I will mail you the first text file with these names.

By the way, a few more ideas for events:

* Alfred Russell Wallace, first wrote his theory of 'Natural Selection' ten years before his friend and colleague Darwin (who's wife was also Welsh). Due to the theory contradicting his religious beliefs would not publish them, but as this mod deals in hypotheticals and what ifs, maybe we could make it so the Welsh, if independent, get an event like the Darwin event before the British, or get the option of having such an event. If it did fire, Darwins later theories would not be so revolutionary, maybe cancelling or reducing the effect of the Charles Darwin event that Britain receives. This would benefit Wales more than, I think, it would hurt Britain, and is quite pkausible historically. Though maybe we should bear in mind that in the 19th century Welshmen were more religously devout that most other British people, as the dominant religions in Wales were strict denominations of Methodists, Calvinists and other near-Puritans. Maybe choosing to publish Wallaces work would cause a slight hoohah amongst the population due to devout religous objections, maybe causing a slight rise in conciousness or militancy, but more than compensated for by the scientific rewards of the event.

* Mount Everest was named after a Welshman (Sir George Everest from Crickhowell - surveyor-general of India 1865). Maybe a small prestige bonus event to Wales like the one Britain gets for the Himalaya`s (I forget the name) that fires in sometime after about 1860.

* Lots of possibilities for industrialisation in South Wales to simulate the privately funded enterprises of people such as Richard Trevithick, Robert Owen etc. I will research this more, of course, but it is realistic given Wales was at the very forefront of Britains Industrial Revolution, and consequently, a world leader in industrial development, at least until other nations caught up (the bloody cheek of it!).

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Well, from looking at the map it seems to me that Worcestershire is mainly in the Birmingham province, though a bit (and unfortunately probably my part ) is probably creeping into Shropshire. Modern day Worcestershire is blocked by Hereford and Shropshire, but as Worcester and Hereford were until 1996 one county, then buger, i'd probably be in Welsh claimed land .

Plus, if theres anyone out there good with events, i scripted a small tester event for Wales that improves the Railways in Cardiff and Cardigan, except its not working. Heres the code:

##################################################
#  Railways
##################################################

event = {
	id = 50000
	random = no
	country = U00

	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 228 data = -1 }
		owned = { province = 227 data = -1 }
	}

	name = "Railroads in Wales"
	desc = "Well, well. Railways"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = june year = 1836 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GET OUT IVOR!"
		command =  { type = railroad which = 228 value = 2 }
		command =  { type = railroad which = 227 value = 2 }
	}
}

I'm not sure if its the event ID, but it doesn't trigger on the date, nor can I activate it manually.

 

[Shadow Reaper]

Very good. I forgot about Trevithick and Owen, I'd studied them in history at High School.

My email is asserran@hotmail.com if you wanna send the names over.

I just have to sort out this event script jobby...

 

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Don`t know why I forgot this one, but an independent Wales would have a very strong claim over Jamaica, as the first governer of Jamaica was Henry Morgan (as in Captain Morgan`s Rum). He founded the modern capital Kingston, and is credited as bringing a hell of a lot of welshmen to the colony, which might be why some historians believe that the distinct Jamaican accent of today is derived from a fusion of traditional Creole and Welsh accents.
In fact, many of the best pirates in the Caribbean were Welsh, possibly because many were temperate and hence not given to the drunken excesses and indiscipline many pirates were famous for. The Jolly Roger flag was actually originally the personal motif of the Pembrokeshire pirate Black Barti. As a more fanciful event, Wales might have the option of sponsoring piracy and privateers in the Caribbean, renewing the old tradition. This might bring in some extra money but harm relations with other colonial powers in the region (Spain, the Netherlands, France, Britain and America). This might be nice as a minor, flavour event to simulate Welsh history.
If a Great War breaks out and Wales is involved, they might also get some aditional help from conscripts. This is realistic enough as about a third of all British troops in WW1 were Welsh, a much higher proportion than the population would suggest.
I need to do more reading on this, but there are also a LOT of possible events where Wales interacts with America. I will list a few of the more likely possibilities later.
Enough to be getting on with here anyway, methinks!

 

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Try this:

##################################################
#  Railways
##################################################

event = {
	id = 999999999#The higher ID, the more certain can you be that you havent picked an ID already used :) 
	random = no
	country = U00

	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 228 data = U00 }
		owned = { province = 227 data = U00 }
	}

	name = "Railroads in Wales"
	desc = "Well, well. Railways"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = june year = 1836 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GET OUT IVOR!"
		command =  { type = construct which = railroad where = 227 }
		command =  { type = construct which = railroad where = 228 }
	}
}

 

[Shadow Reaper]

lol, I guess you never see how important Wales is until you get into it!

Thats exactly how I tried it as well. I've tried doing it with just Wales existing, but it still doesn't trigger... Theres something really simple I'm missing.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

Please note the new, shiny commands

 

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And of course, Alcohol and temperance events!

Seriously, Methodism and other strict faiths that were dominant in Wales at this time encouraged temperance, and this had a number of significant implications. There could be a chain of temperance events that allow you to slightly alter the moral stance of the nation in terms of alcohol.
For example, some of the most famous names in distillation were originally Welsh (Jack Daniels and Evan Williams Bourbon Whiskey, Matthews of Southern Comfort fame). However, due to religous dissapproval, they left Wales to pursue their work in America, and went on to be, well, huge. Maybe an event that might encourage them to stay in Wales, state sanctioned, which might make somes pops (especially clergy) more militant, but give a free liquor distillery improvement to represent their collective work in distillation.
Similarly, of benefit to Britain and, maybe later Wales, I think Jamaica should begin with a liquor distillery, as Captain Morgans Rum was already a well established an lucrative brand by the 19th century.
Again, these events are more for flavour than anything, but they could help to create a more authentic simulation of Wales and Welsh issues of the time.

 

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Anyone else get the impression that this is going to be a very cool mod?? Of course, I am biased, but hey...
Can`t believe I never bothered with this before. It just seems...right somehow.

 

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lol, I guess you never see how important Wales is until you get into it!

Yes, we are not the comical laughing stock that popular culture would have us be...or at least, we haven`t always been thus.