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Now it's to late to start any repayment scheme. If the Vikings or the Germans where to pay it would have to be done back in 1066 or 1918.
i said it was arguable that the UK and France started the 2nd World War. Which is, I think, accurate.
Were they right to do so? I think, yes. But regardless, they did declare war on Germany. Germany did not declare war on, nor did it invade, either of them first.
Again, had they not done so, we might be discussing the 4th Partition of Poland, or something like that.
Fair.
I think however a even harsher Versailles would have led to the same historical result. Maybe even worse since the Nazis would have gathered even more victim sympathy points
Or the German-Soviet war which would have been inevitable given enough time with Hitler's hands on the wheel.
He is right saying that Austria-Hungary conflict with Serbia wouldn't had triggered a world war (perhaps even that it wouldn't had triggered a war at all) without German diplomacy.
In World War Two, the case was different. Contrary to the Great War, Germany didn't wanted global war... not yet I mean. Because it explicitly wanted and hoped war for few years later.
Germany thought that Polish conflict would stay a local conflict -regardless of French and British warns. The United Kingdom and France formally declared war, making it global by the simple weight of their Empire, while Germany made the first act of war (as it did a lot between 1933 and 1939 without triggering a war), soon followed by the Soviet Union.
This is impossible imo, Russia already mobilized vs Austria.
That the German blank cheque for Austria was stupid beyond believe is out of the question fo course.
If you separate blame from 'who started it', Yakman has a point, in that Germany was the first to DoW another major power, so they started it.
Then again the first DoW of the series of events that in our timeline became known as WW1 is the DoW of Austria against Serbia, so IMO they started it.
The question who is to blame is a different one and I've already given my ranking earlier.
Then again the first DoW of the series of events that in our timeline became known as WW1 is the DoW of Austria against Serbia, so IMO they started it.
The question who is to blame is a different one and I've already given my ranking earlier.
When I mean "it wouldn't had triggered a war at all", I mean perhaps not even between Austria-Hungary and Serbia. Without the German blank cheque, and with the threatening of war with Russia, Austria-Hungary's ultimatum would had been different. Austria-Hungary and Serbia might probably had found an agreement that would had save face of both. The Russian mobilization wasn't doomed to end with a war between Russia and Austria-Hungary, none of them had interest to do that.
Then we have to talk about how justified a German preemptive strike against the Entete was. France wasnt going to watch while Germany fights Russia and Russia was not going to watch while Austria fights Serbia.
Germany also didn't want global war in WW1; they wanted France and the UK to step aside in the Russo-German-Austrian war.
I can settle for giving Germany the largest pile of blame, I never objected to that when it was mentioned here. Lots of stupid actions here.
Sole blame, never, thats wrong.
Well, perhaps... I'll have to look at it with more attention.
To be clear, that never was my point... I explicitly stated that every belligerent was to blame (except the few members of the parliaments who refused to vote war chests), but that Germany had, we can say, the largest pile of blame.
And the huge responsibility of Germany in the two world wars (and even in the Franco-Prussian war of 1870-1871) is well balanced by how well Germany worked on itself in the After War. I think that no other state make such a work on itself. Neither the other vanquished (Japan, Austria, Italy) nor the victorious states (America, France, Great Britain, Russia, China).
yes, indeed. it could have been anything. who knows?
We only have access to the history which happened.
Germany literally invaded France and tried to destroy its armies, and capture its capital.
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I see 5 pages have been added since I last logged on 
All I'll add is that it helps seeing the 1914 crisis in the context of the 1908 Bosnia crisis where Russia backed down and was left shortchanged and humiliated by the Austrian annexation. In 1914 Austria knew it was poking the bear by again moving to annex another country in the Balkans, this time Russia's main ally.
All I'll add is that it helps seeing the 1914 crisis in the context of the 1908 Bosnia crisis where Russia backed down and was left shortchanged and humiliated by the Austrian annexation. In 1914 Austria knew it was poking the bear by again moving to annex another country in the Balkans, this time Russia's main ally.
I see 5 pages have been added since I last logged on
All I'll add is that it helps seeing the 1914 crisis in the context of the 1908 Bosnia crisis where Russia backed down and was left shortchanged and humiliated by the Austrian annexation. In 1914 Austria knew it was poking the bear by again moving to annex another country in the Balkans, this time Russia's main ally.
Serbia wasn't an ally of Russia.
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