umm...
Kaiser Wilhelm II was the guy who actually started WW1. So, i'd assign that role to him.
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Kaiser Wilhelm II was the guy who actually started WW1. So, i'd assign that role to him.
He certainly didn't help, but start it? The dishonor of issuing the first declaration of war goes to Austria-Hungary, I believe.umm...
Kaiser Wilhelm II was the guy who actually started WW1. So, i'd assign that role to him.
Okay, I was actually serious.
I don't remember Imperial Germany issuing an Ultimatum to Serbia.umm...
Kaiser Wilhelm II was the guy who actually started WW1. So, i'd assign that role to him.
What Bismarck wasn't around, he died way before that. If he was still alive German would have been allied with Russia or UK.
Not in this timeline, no.umm...
Kaiser Wilhelm II was the guy who actually started WW1. So, i'd assign that role to him.
He helped alot to escalate things smoothly tho.
If I remember correctly he told AH that he had their back then went sailing for a 2 to 3 weeks and was mad that it was still a thing when he was done.
You're absolutely right, of course. I was thinking of von Valkenhayen (?), but basically meant Germany. The idea that Austria (or any Austrian General) started WW1 is a complete misunderstanding of the politics. That was the point I spectacularly failed to make.
- June 28, 1914: Serbian irredentists assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.
- June 30: Austrian Foreign Minister Count Leopold Berchtold and Emperor Franz Josef agree that the "policy of patience" with Serbia was at an end and a firm line must be taken.
- July 5: Austrian Diplomat Alexander, Count of Hoyos visits Berlin to ascertain German attitudes.
- July 6: Germany provides unconditional support to Austria-Hungary – the so-called "blank cheque".
- July 20–23: French President Raymond Poincaré, on state visit to the Tsar at St Petersburg, urges intransigent opposition to any Austrian measure against Serbia.
- July 23: Austria-Hungary, following their own secret enquiry, sends an ultimatum to Serbia, containing their demands, and gives only forty-eight hours to comply.
- July 24: Sir Edward Grey, speaking for the British government, asks that Germany, France, Italy and Great Britain, "who had no direct interests in Serbia, should act together for the sake of peace simultaneously."[45]
- July 24: Serbia seeks support from Russia and Russia advises Serbia not to accept the ultimatum.[46] Germany officially declares support for Austria's position.
- July 24: the Russian Council of Ministers agrees to secret partial mobilization of the Russian Army and Navy.[citation needed]
- July 25: Tsar approves Council of Ministers decision and Russia begins partial mobilization of 1.1 million men against the Austrian-Hungarian Empire.[47]
- July 25: Serbia responds to Austro-Hungarian démarche with less than full acceptance and asks that the Hague Tribunal arbitrate. Austria-Hungary breaks diplomatic relations with Serbia. Serbia mobilizes its army.
- July 26: Serbian reservists accidentally violate Austro-Hungarian border at Temes-Kubin.[48]
- July 26: A meeting is organised to take place between ambassadors from Great Britain, Germany, Italy and France to discuss the crisis. Germany declines the invitation.
- July 28: Austria-Hungary, having failed to accept Serbia's response of the 25th, declares war on Serbia. Austro-Hungarian mobilisation against Serbia begins.
- July 29: Sir Edward Grey appeals to Germany to intervene to maintain peace.
- July 29: The British Ambassador in Berlin, Sir Edward Goschen, is informed by the German Chancellor that Germany is contemplating war with France, and furthermore, wishes to send its army through Belgium. He tries to secure Britain's neutrality in such an action.
- July 29: In the morning Russian general mobilisation against Austria and Germany is ordered; in the evening[49] the Tsar opts for partial mobilization after a flurry of telegrams with Kaiser Wilhelm.[50]
- July 30: Russian general mobilization is reordered by the Tsar on instigation by Sergei Sazonov.
- July 31: Austrian general mobilization is ordered.
- July 31: Germany enters a period preparatory to war.
- July 31: Germany sends an ultimatum to Russia, demanding that they halt general mobilization within twelve hours, but Russia refuses.
- July 31: Both France and Germany are asked by Britain to declare their support for the ongoing neutrality of Belgium. France agrees to this. Germany does not respond.
- July 31: Germany asks France whether it would stay neutral in case of a war Germany vs. Russia.
- August 1: German general mobilization is ordered, deployment plan 'Aufmarsch II West' chosen.
- August 1: French general mobilization is ordered, deployment Plan XVII chosen.
- August 1: Germany declares war against Russia.
- August 1: The Tsar responds to the king's telegram, stating, "I would gladly have accepted your proposals had not the German ambassador this afternoon presented a note to my Government declaring war."
- August 2: Germany and the Ottoman Empire sign a secret treaty[51] entrenching the Ottoman–German Alliance.
- August 3: France declines (See Note[citation needed]) Germany's demand to remain neutral.[52]
- August 3: Germany declares war on France.
- August 3: Germany states to Belgium that she would "treat her as an enemy" if she did not allow free passage of German troops across her lands.
- August 4: Germany implements offensive operation inspired by Schlieffen Plan.
- August 4 (midnight): Having failed to receive notice from Germany assuring the neutrality of Belgium, Britain declares war on Germany.
- August 6: Austria-Hungary declares war on Russia.
- August 23: Japan, honoring the Anglo-Japanese Alliance, declares war on Germany.
- August 25: Japan declares war on Austria-Hungary.
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Another thread reduced to arguing over who started WW1. Peak Paradox.
How bout we do Sea Lion next?
Setting aside the "Why he's important" debate, he's also (depending on which era you ask) in the running for worst general of WW1 along with Cadorna and a few others. As one might imagine, this is a very competitive posting.
How about we try to answer some really difficult questions?
For example, what in the nine hells was Zimmerman or any of his bosses thinking when they issued that telegram to Mexico?
For example, what in the nine hells was Zimmerman or any of his bosses thinking when they issued that telegram to Mexico?
Konrad von Hutzendorf.
The famous blank check from Kaiser was important, but I believe he would have pushed the war anyway and the ball would roll the same way.
The famous blank check from Kaiser was important, but I believe he would have pushed the war anyway and the ball would roll the same way.
I though it started when Archie Duke shot an Ostrich because he was Hungry...
Yeah, Konrad was rather keen on a war with Serbia. In the twelve months leading up to August of 1914, Konrad had urged his Emperor to declare war on Serbia on TWENTY-SIX separate occasions.
Yeah, Konrad was rather keen on a war with Serbia. In the twelve months leading up to August of 1914, Konrad had urged his Emperor to declare war on Serbia on TWENTY-SIX separate occasions.
At some point you gotta admit some liability on behalf of the Emperor, he had to know Konrad had a one-track mind.
I don't think there is much point trying to lay the blame on a single individual here. There were people in Berlin advocating for war, and people in Vienna advocating for war, together they got it. Budapest seems to have been the least enthusiastic about whole escalation.
Well played. I vote the Black Hand as the motivating factor and the catalyst that created the change. Might not have been the one they wanted, however, but c'est la vie.
They were thinking that 'Gentlemen do not read other gentlemen's mail', then they ran into British Codebreakers hiding in Room 40 (transplanted after the war to Bletchley Park) who created a cover story to hide the fact that in England the practicioners of the 'Dark Arts' (Intelligence gathering / analysis / feedback - using Any Means Necessary ) worked for the Crown and were no gentlemen.
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Well, Austria and the Serbian terrorists didn't start WWI. Those two started a single war between two countries. The nation that started WWI was the first nation to get involved in the war between Serbia and Austro-Hungary knowing perfectly well that it would kick off a chain reaction of declarations of war from the complicated web of alliances Europe was embroiled in. That would be Germany.
On the other hand... Austro-Hungary DID have a legitimate reason to declare war on Serbia, what with a terrorist group murdering the archduke with possibly maybe involvement from the Serbian government at the time. So maybe France and Russia are responsible for starting WWI when they decided to get involved in what was a legitimate invasion of Serbia.
Either way the whole thing is one of the biggest man made tragedies in history. There was no need for a world war and 20 million dead over Serbia. What did European leaders fear so much in Austro-Hungary adding Serbia to their dysfunctional little empire that was doomed to collapse soon anyhow?
On the other hand... Austro-Hungary DID have a legitimate reason to declare war on Serbia, what with a terrorist group murdering the archduke with possibly maybe involvement from the Serbian government at the time. So maybe France and Russia are responsible for starting WWI when they decided to get involved in what was a legitimate invasion of Serbia.
Either way the whole thing is one of the biggest man made tragedies in history. There was no need for a world war and 20 million dead over Serbia. What did European leaders fear so much in Austro-Hungary adding Serbia to their dysfunctional little empire that was doomed to collapse soon anyhow?
you can use the same argument for others. russia intervened austro-serbian-german war that would cause whole world conflagration
austria-hungary did not have legit reasons. serbia accepted their ultimatum.
ww1 was not about serbia. there had already an arms race between great powers, they foreseen the conflict. serbia was just an excuse to start it.
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