Who gets the PU

[DM818]

So in my current Castile game Aragon has no heir and is of my dynasty however it says at monarch death that Austria will immediately get the PU I don't understand why this is as it seems like I should get the PU since we both have royal marriages with Aragon and I share a dynasty with them while they don't.

 

[Yoshijoe]

Austria probably has more prestige, that's the deciding factor here. You could use claim the throne and get the CB (Austria can't) and force them into a PU though.

 

[TheBloke]

So in my current Castile game Aragon has no heir and is of my dynasty however it says at monarch death that Austria will immediately get the PU I don't understand why this is as it seems like I should get the PU since we both have royal marriages with Aragon and I share a dynasty with them while they don't.

Check Austria's relations towards Aragon - did they claim their throne? If so there should be an icon on Aragon's screen about "Claimed Throne from Austria". Can't see it in that screenshot but maybe there's more icons if you scroll down? Though the fact that they're allied to Austria suggests probably not..

Otherwise yeah, this is a bit odd. PUs/Claim Throne never fail to amaze me in how not-understandable they are.

It might be that Austria have higher Prestige, but I was sure that shouldn't override the Dynasty, and yours is hardly low.

Do you have a normal monarch, not Regency or anything?

 

[TheBloke]

PS. Start spending your Military Points! You're throwing them away at the moment!

 

[DM818]

Yeah they didn't claim the throne I checked that right away but forgot to state that in the first post there was a time where I was maintaining 100 prestige (as was Austria) and they still had the PU going in their favor. I am not in a regency but I do have a queen though I don't think that really effects anything as Aragon frequently has a queen as well.

 

[DM818]

PS. Start spending your Military Points! You're throwing them away at the moment!

I have had two 6 mil stat leaders in a row I honestly have nothing to spend them on other than cycling generals from time to time.

 

[TheBloke]

Yeah they didn't claim the throne I checked that right away but forgot to state that in the first post there was a time where I was maintaining 100 prestige (as was Austria) and they still had the PU going in their favor. I am not in a regency but I do have a queen though I don't think that really effects anything as Aragon frequently has a queen as well.

Hmm, maybe it's the Queen then? I wasn't aware that queens couldn't become a PU-master, but it's certainly plausible.

Given we've ruled out Prestige and Claim the Throne, I think that that has to be the explanation.

By the way, are you able to Claim their Throne? Is that option enabled for you under Aragon's Diplomacy? If Queen's can't be PU master, then I'd expect to see that button disabled, or not even there. Can you check?

Edit: I zoomed way into your picture and can see Claim Throne in the background. It looks like it's enabled, though it's difficult to be sure through the tooltip overlay..

If this isn't Ironman and/or you don't mind experimenting, it would be interesting to see what happens when you click that. It will trash relations and lose you Prestige, though, so you probably don't want to unless you can reload.

 

[DM818]

Yes the claim throne button is enabled I am in an ironman game also I just realized that under this same queen I got naples in a PU without claiming the throne or anything though since I wasn't really paying attention to them before they were my vassal I don't know if they had any other royal marriages so it might be that queens are just lower priority or maybe it has to do with something else. It is certainly perplexing.

 

[sgt.stickybomb]

I have had two 6 mil stat leaders in a row I honestly have nothing to spend them on other than cycling generals from time to time.

Oh you poor thing,......

 

[TheBloke]

Yeah, could be. Just about everything regarding PU/Claim Thrones is perplexing and confusing. Just when we think we've nearly got close to understanding all the conditions and edge-cases, another mystery pops up!

Let us know if anything changes later.

By the way, have you been at war with Aragon anytime in the recent past? I assume not from your great relations. I've been in a situation where Spain was due to fall into a PU with me, then I went to war against them (on a claim throne CB) and it changed to be that they would PU with someone else. That's probably because I was actually at​ war with them, and it would have changed back at the end of the war. But it's one thing to wonder about..

 

[TheBloke]

I have had two 6 mil stat leaders in a row I honestly have nothing to spend them on other than cycling generals from time to time.

You can't get the next MilTech Level Ahead of Time? Even if it costs an extra 300 points. Assuming you have a gain of at least 10 a month at the moment (3 base, 6 leader, 1 advisor), you'll waste those 300 points in only 2.5 years. So I'd get the tech level 5 years ahead of time for sure.

Maybe you should take a Military Idea Group as your next set

 

[DM818]

Yeah, could be. Just about everything regarding PU/Claim Thrones is perplexing and confusing. Just when we think we've nearly got close to understanding all the conditions and edge-cases, another mystery pops up!

Let us know if anything changes later.

By the way, have you been at war with Aragon anytime in the recent past? I assume not from your great relations. I've been in a situation where Spain was due to fall into a PU with me, then I went to war against them (on a claim throne CB) and it changed to be that they would PU with someone else. That's probably because I was actually at​ war with them, and it would have changed back at the end of the war. But it's one thing to wonder about..

I was at war with them a few years ago as they were attacking Naples when I inherited it they have also been flipping between hostile and not since around 1504.

As for the military tech I have been getting that around 7 or 8 years early. As for military idea groups I am a lover not a fighter I just want to colonize the world and if I get a few PUs along the way all the better.

 

[unmerged(815621)]

Austria probably has more prestige, that's the deciding factor here. You could use claim the throne and get the CB (Austria can't) and force them into a PU though.

Austria as AI is a lucky nation, which is why they got the PU. I have had England get the PU for Portugal, even though they much less prestige than I had. I do not know the value cutoff for Prestige + Lucky Nation versus Prestige, but it is irritating none the less.

 

[Comradebot]

I have had two 6 mil stat leaders in a row I honestly have nothing to spend them on other than cycling generals from time to time.

Then you should've taken a military idea ;-)

 

[TheBloke]

Austria as AI is a lucky nation, which is why they got the PU. I have had England get the PU for Portugal, even though they much less prestige than I had. I do not know the value cutoff for Prestige + Lucky Nation versus Prestige, but it is irritating none the less.

Are you certain? I know that Luck can override an otherwise equal, or even lower Prestige. But it can override same Dynasty as well?

I don't even understand the point of having same Dynasty if a Lucky nation can get a PU without even having the Dynasty. That was at least one part of the mechanic I was sure I understood - when you have same Dynasty, you are ahead of non-Dynasty for all PU/Claim Throne mechanics.

If that's not true either, then I just don't know. Well at the least, this Lucky nation bonus is ridiculous. If you have same or similar prestige, fine, Luck should override that. But not put you at head of the queue regardless of dynasty or anything else. That's just stupid.

 

[unmerged(815621)]

Are you certain?

The other case is that Austria claimed their throne, which I am unsure if the AI does that. Lucky nations have a lot of effects that spread from their explicitly defined bonus, that without looking at the EU4 code for calculating the PU, I cannot say with certain. Some events are more favorable for lucky nations, such as PUs, that it is frustrating at times.

 

[TheBloke]

The other case is that Austria claimed their throne, which I am unsure if the AI does that. Lucky nations have a lot of effects that spread from their explicitly defined bonus, that without looking at the EU4 code for calculating the PU, I cannot say with certain. Some events are more favorable for lucky nations, such as PUs, that it is frustrating at times.

OK. We know for sure the AI did not claim the throne in this case. So yeah, seems like it must be the Lucky bonus.

That's so overpowered! It should not be able to override dynasty; at most it should give preference when both/neither have same dynasty.

 

[DM818]

Well that succession crisis came and went as they got an heir just in time now the same thing is happening again only this time I have far and away the better prestige 95 vs 21 I am the only one that shares a dynasty with them we both have royal marriages and yet Austria still gets the PU if this is just because of lucky nations then that is one of the most unbalanced features in the game I honestly don't know what the reason could possibly be.

 

[TheBloke]

Well that succession crisis came and went as they got an heir just in time now the same thing is happening again only this time I have far and away the better prestige 95 vs 21 I am the only one that shares a dynasty with them we both have royal marriages and yet Austria still gets the PU if this is just because of lucky nations then that is one of the most unbalanced features in the game I honestly don't know what the reason could possibly be.

Yeah, that's pretty stupid. Raise it in the bug reports thread. It might be intended, but if it is, it's stupid and should be changed. And it could be a bug.

 

[Jaol]

Well that succession crisis came and went as they got an heir just in time now the same thing is happening again only this time I have far and away the better prestige 95 vs 21 I am the only one that shares a dynasty with them we both have royal marriages and yet Austria still gets the PU if this is just because of lucky nations then that is one of the most unbalanced features in the game I honestly don't know what the reason could possibly be.

Maybe Austria claimed the throne?