Who does well by staying Catholic?

[Incompetent]

I'm wondering which countries actually benefit from staying Catholic now, as opposed to going Protestant/Reformed (or even Orthodox in Eastern Europe). Controlling the Pope is a bit random now, and he often controls himself. The boons are nice but most of them seem very expensive for what they do (a boon every 20+ years is not going to have much impact on the game.

If you're playing the Papal States, obviously you stay Catholic.

If you're playing Castile/Spain, you get big bonuses to PI, so you'll get more out of Catholicism than most. In fact if the Reformation goes really far, Spain (having eaten Portugal) can end up being the only Catholic major left. Some other countries also get PI bonuses, but they're in less of a position to monopolise the church like Spain can.

Depending on how the league wars go, it may be necessary to stay Catholic in order to become/stay Holy Roman Emperor.


But what about countries that don't fit any of these, such as France, Poland or Hungary? Does it make sense for them to stay true to Rome, or will they be better off switching?

 

[TingJonKi]

If you can gain papal influence quickly then you are better off staying Catholic in practically all cases

If you are going for a military or trade empire then reformed is the best as the fervor bonus from military is substantial

Protestant doesn't really give enough positives to go this route

 

[marceror]

I'm playing as France and remained Catholic, mostly for role playing purposes. Perhaps I missed out on an opportunity by doing so, but I haven't noticed any significant disadvantages. Sure, several of my provinces converted to Protestant, but it really didn't cripple me in any noticeable way. I remained the dominant world power, and after 1650 I started converting everything back to Catholic. Incidentally, it's really just Great Britain and Brandenburg that converted to Protestant in my game. There really wasn't much in the way of reformed to speak of.

Now that I'm finally moving in on Great Britain in the 1750 timeframe, it's becoming a very, very Catholic Europe.

 

[Deuterium Dawn]

If you can gain papal influence quickly then you are better off staying Catholic in practically all cases

If you are going for a military or trade empire then reformed is the best as the fervor bonus from military is substantial

Protestant doesn't really give enough positives to go this route

I'd say the monarch points are a significant positive, and unlike the trade bonus won't become completely irrelevant rather quickly(morale, less so, but past a certain point you'll simply outclass your opponents if you don't already start out as a blob). With the way the Curia works now and even the smallest investment having the chance to control the Curia for a potentially significant time period, I'd never stay Catholic unless I was starting out as a Catholic major(France/Spain/Austria) and could be in a position to control the overwhelming majority of Catholic Europe relatively quickly.

 

[Nunn45]

In singleplayer its not really an issue, being the player will outweigh any negatives you get from remaining catholic.
Multiplayer on the other hand then yeah theirs not much point staying catholic unless its necessary for your country or you will be getting more of a benefit from remaining catholic then changing.

 

[balmung60]

In the current version, I don't think I'd ever stay Catholic, even if I was playing in Europe.

The Curia is too random and spending PI for the most part costs too much for too little gain (and papal favors are essentially unusable outside of Europe because things like Catholic Japan will basically never get enough influence to "buy" anything good).

And in conclusion, Reformed or bust.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

I'd say the monarch points are a significant positive, and unlike the trade bonus won't become completely irrelevant rather quickly(morale, less so, but past a certain point you'll simply outclass your opponents if you don't already start out as a blob). With the way the Curia works now and even the smallest investment having the chance to control the Curia for a potentially significant time period, I'd never stay Catholic unless I was starting out as a Catholic major(France/Spain/Austria) and could be in a position to control the overwhelming majority of Catholic Europe relatively quickly.

How do you get monarch points for staying Catholic?

 

[Incompetent]

How do you get monarch points for staying Catholic?

You save a few monarch points from 'Beatify Local Saint' and/or becoming Papal Controller. I'm not sure how the average saving compares to the Protestant bonus (-10% idea cost).

Reformed never saves you monarch points per se, but you can pretty much constantly run one of the three Foci (and run more than one for short bursts). I'm not a fan of the Trade focus, as money is usually plentiful anyway, but War and Stability are great for when you need them.

 

[fleetothemoon]

Staying Catholic is not worth it. I wanted to see if I can take advantage of the bonuses and played catholic all the way but it is just too hard to dominate the curia even if you reach a decent size, and you cant get any of the bonuses if you want to even have an inkling chance of being a controller. I imagine that unless if u eliminate all other major catholic nations or blob to a tremendous point, being Protestant and Reformed (with DLC) is just outright better. Although taking the religious ideas combined with some natural national ideas to increase papal influence (e.g., Spain) may make it a bit more worthwhile.

But that's just too circumstantial, and I don't really like the religious tree.

 

[Granite]

Yeah, in my current Pope game, I keep the curia 80% of the time. I can see why other countries might want out...
Also, Rome is reformed. So, you know, that's a thing.

 

[slv]

The only time when I didn't see the Reformed Rome was when I played Tuscany, converted to Protestantism and got a center in Siena. You know what I mean

 

[Illianor123]

If you can be the only big catholic power and so monopolize the cardinals and thus PI then it is good. Otherwise convert.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Papal state and giant Catholic nations are the only ones that seem to fit. You also need to stay Catholic as KNI and CYP to form Jerusalem, but it's hell compared to going Orthodox and makes their position a lot more challenging if you try it.

Nations with +papal influence NI have some incentive to stay too, even if only to get stab boosts or mercantilism.

 

[solidprice]

Papal state and giant Catholic nations are the only ones that seem to fit. You also need to stay Catholic as KNI and CYP to form Jerusalem, but it's hell compared to going Orthodox and makes their position a lot more challenging if you try it.

Nations with +papal influence NI have some incentive to stay too, even if only to get stab boosts or mercantilism.

this.
The only reason to go catholic for rotw is to then quickly convert to reformed or protestant if you can milk the bonuses more then reformed.

hell, even orthodox/Islam would be better for some nations.

 

[Deuterium Dawn]

How do you get monarch points for staying Catholic?

Well, aside from the rather expensive stability purchase, if you can monpolize the curia/papacy it will save you 5% in tech costs. But I was talking about Protestantism.