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Jan 31, 2007
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White & Reds - A Global alternate history mod.



Welcome to Whites & Reds an ahistorical mod for Heart of Iron II

Title explanation :
Whites & Reds : reflect how the two parts of a world where democracy is agonising calls themselves.

This mod is compatible with Doomsday and Armageddon and probably with the further enhancements of Hoi2

Originally based on a pack that should had enhanced Soviet Union in terms of ahistorical alternatives. Soon became Whites and Reds had a whole mod in itself based in a world where Socialism has triumphed in Western Europe instead of Russia after a successful European revolution in 1917 aborting the First World War before the American intervention, with many other various side consequences on the rest of the world.

My inspirations mostly come from Sarmathia’s awesome « All the Russias » mod « Kaiseriech », MOD34 and World in Flames for the game-play.

Whites & Reds is a whole new setting for the game but also a different game-play :
To mod aim is to be fun and quite realistic in terms of gameplay and to have a credible (but never perfect...) ahistorical setting that has to remain flexible and reactive to player’s choices.

The main features:
- Playing minors will be now more interesting, you’ll have better opportunities to develop, and most countries have new tech-teams to do so.
- A different event philosophy: W&R had many events but they events don’t drive the story in a linear line like they do in Vanilla. For example the major countries political background isn’t driven by one or two decisions events that allow you to change regime in one day but the results of successive events that may have different consequences.
- A time scale from 1930 to 1948 with the Second World War starting around 1934.
- A reactive and unpredictable situation: War doesn’t come at a given date; you’ll have to observe the world situation in order to react to the events. No longer will you gather your troops in one front knowing that the other neighbours will not react, you’ll have to remain careful in your war planning.
- A revamped tech-tree with a lot of new original elements ranging from infantry tactics, guerilla warfare, cruisers-submarines, “big berthas”, industrial development, communication systems, propaganda, helicopters etc…
- Reworked unit balance to reflect equipments upgrades and make battles last a bit longer in a reasonable way (less than in World in Flames and other mods) to make breakthrough manoeuvres more important.
- Brigade’s changes: Brigades have been overall improved, they’re now considered as additional equipment, cheaper and more useful. Super Heavy Armored Tanks have been reconverted into siege artillery and military police into additional men for infantry (to allow you to make “larger” infantry divisions).
- Tons of new leaders/ministers/tech teams have been added, some pictures have been improved (color remains black & white to keep the graphical unity and simply because it like it) every country has been subject to some changes that may vary to a few additional ministers to a complete rework of leaders for Austria-Hungary and Germany or France in order to remain a bit logical : you didn't expect Petain to work for communist France didn't you ?.
- New graphics, sounds and music to improve immersion.
- French and English languages (French event texts will be re-written slowly after the first release but the tech-tree is fully translated)

The first release will include the 1930 scenarios in a beta shape. It will be compatible only with the latest version of Armageddon and the unofficial patch.

Release date set to : WHEN IT'S DONE !
 
Last edited:

Miihkali

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Looks promising, only one question:
Would Finland have Finnish reds in power?
 

Gen. Skobelev

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This looks very promising indeed. Any possibility of showing us some screenshots with the overall situation? :)
 
Jan 31, 2007
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Would Finland have Finnish reds in power?
Finland will be "White" and supported or influenced by British and Americans like most of scandinavia.

Any possibility of showing us some screenshots with the overall situation?
Here is the starting 1930 european situation.

 

Crush3r

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Looks promising
 

Miihkali

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So what are all those European states? Light red is Russia, and dark red USSR, but what's that nation same colour than Persia? And is Primorsk puppet or ally of Russia?
 

unmerged(63886)

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Looks indeed very promising! (But please, use a color mod to get rid of that nasty vanilla colorscale ;) )
 

Miihkali

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Another question: who has more industery: russian whites or reds?
 
Jan 31, 2007
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Looks indeed very promising! (But please, use a color mod to get rid of that nasty vanilla colorscale )
Yes it'll be changed I just forgot to put it in the build :D .

So what are all those European states? Light red is Russia, and dark red USSR, but what's that nation same colour than Persia? And is Primorsk puppet or ally of Russia?

Nation with the same color as persia is the semi independant cossack republic wich is puppet of Russia and that will surely not last for long, they're mostly there to simulate the mess and lack of control of the Russian governement and there's always a chance that they start to run free out of control or maybe a new Pugachev will raise.

Regarding Primorsk it's also a puppet of Russia to simulate that they're part of the governement but Kolchack is free to do what he whants.

who has more industery: russian whites or reds?
Russia lost a all it's west european possessions such as it's granary in Ukraine and a part of it's industry. The country is also very messy but they still posses most of the Russian industry. They also recieve investments and support from UK and USA.

On the other hand the soviet took a lot of materials while retreating and started to rebuild a viable industry in Siberia like Stalin did in WW2, use of central planning economy and "war communism" also helps.

On the overall they'll quite equals.
 

cegorach

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Narakir said:
Finland will be "White" and supported or influenced by British and Americans like most of scandinavia.


Here is the starting 1930 european situation.




Small note...

Poland would surely get Cracov and Lvov (unless both with Ukraine are Austrian puppets if so Ukraine might get Lvov to annoy Poles) - Cracov is incredibly important for Poland (cultural and historical capital) - just the number of famous leaders, poets and kings buried in Wawel castle is enough, besides it was autonomous region before the 1st WW anyway.

Besides for Austria Cracov, Przemysl and Lvov ( Stanislavov and Stryj too) had very little value - it had little chance for development without connection with Poland. If Austria isn't supposed to fight Poland in the mod and have some -200 relationship with it it shouldn't have any of those provinces.

Cracov definetely should be in Poland, so deoes Przemysl - Lvov, Stryj and Stanislawow can be either Polish or Ukrainian (though both should treat those as their cores) - it depends on your idea for the mod.



If you you are willing to keep the current design - you need some very cunning justification - personally I cannot find anything and I have very large imagination... ;)
 
Jul 3, 2007
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will russia be able to claim its lost empire...and what should we expect from Austria-Hungary....I actually like AUS's borders..and I would like to see a screenie of the world if possible, Is there anyway I can help in a small way?
 

unmerged(61606)

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what is the state in the Kuban and KAzakh areas?

also, would Poland have Danzig and East Prussia in this scenario? why would they?
 

cegorach

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The province Danzig doesn't really equal Danzig city - after all historically there was Gdynia which was the real Polish port in the region (build from scratch) - besides the surest thing to provoke an endless hostility of Poland was to deprieve it of the access to the Baltic and any part of 'Vistula area' from Kraków through Warsaw to the Baltic Sea - Teutonic Order learnt that very well... ;)

In the game terms the only way to get access to a sea is to have a province actually touching it - there is no other way unfortunatelly.
 

Gen. Skobelev

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Thank you for posting the screenshot, it really looks very promising. How's the situation in Asia?
 
Jul 3, 2007
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f_WRUrpm_c46d2d41.jpg




ok red = wat I think u should do
blak = possibilities

National France should atleast have a foot hold on france...Russia would never let the Cossaks be the big(everything east of the line I think should be Russian, we should give Russia more land

For Germany, Bavaria should be semi-independent monarchay under the Bav King....Prussia should be and independent ally of Austria and have the old Navy/air force and a good portion of the army of the former German Empire also there should be a pupet monarchy of Saxony to Prussia...If Italy was defeated by Austria, I really dont think they would have let thier arch-rival have colonies...Give the Serbian provinences cut off from Aus to Bulgaria...the circled Greek island should be an austrian base...any how, PROMISING MOD, AND GOOD LUCK! lol
 
Jan 31, 2007
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@Cegorach
Don't worry I know how important is Kraców capital of Poland in middle ages. About the other regions you mentioned, sure they're claimed by Poland that'll try to recover them at the first opportunity if Austria weakens but they are part of the Galicia for the moment but may be sure that Pilsudski will try to do something soon or later ;) . Poland also have loads of core on Belarus and Ukraine.

I'll give Stanislawow to Ukraine tough it has nothing to do in Austria.

will russia be able to claim its lost empire...and what should we expect from Austria-Hungary....I actually like AUS's borders..and I would like to see a screenie of the world if possible, Is there anyway I can help in a small way?

Russia will have the opportunity to rebuild the empire yes but not without a lot of problems and wars.

Austria-Hungary is mostly in a defensive position and will face serval threats such as Italy, Germany, Poland and even a treacherous Romania. It also has serval risks to collapse if the governement isn't capable to deal with the problems.

Is there anyway I can help in a small way?
Sure what can you do ?
 
Jul 3, 2007
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Narakir said:
@Cegorach
Don't worry I know how important is Kraców capital of Poland in middle ages. About the other regions you mentioned, sure they're claimed by Poland that'll try to recover them at the first opportunity if Austria weakens but they are part of the Galicia for the moment but may be sure that Pilsudski will try to do something soon or later ;) . Poland also have loads of core on Belarus and Ukraine.

I'll give Stanislawow to Ukraine tough it has nothing to do in Austria.



Russia will have the opportunity to rebuild the empire yes but not without a lot of problems and wars.

Austria-Hungary is mostly in a defensive position and will face serval threats such as Italy, Germany, Poland and even a treacherous Romania. It also has serval risks to collapse if the governement isn't capable to deal with the problems.

Sure what can you do ?

info...I'm a sophomore in High school, so there isn't that much..but plz just give me a suggestion...
 

cegorach

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Narakir said:
@Cegorach
Don't worry I know how important is Kraców capital of Poland in middle ages.



Just to make matters as simple as possible - for the time of 'no state' i.e. after 1795 a capital understood as the center of cultural, scientifical and political life (so also military, independence movements etc) would be very much... movable as follows:

1795 - 1806 Paris

1806 Poznan (Poznan Uprising after Jena),

1807-31 Warsaw (to November Uprising), second capital in Wilno ( 1815-22),

1831-46 Kraków (Republic of Kraków) and Paris,

1846 (Kraków Uprising) - 1861 Lvov and the second in Poznan (to the Poznan Uprising of 1848),

1861-64 Warsaw,

1864 (January Uprising) - 1867 Lvov,

1867-1905 Kraków & Lvov,

1905 (Revolution in Poland) - 1914 Warsaw,

1915-18 Warsaw and Kraków,

1918 Poznan, Warsaw, Kraków, Lvov, Lublin and Wilno (6 capitals),

1919 Poznan (still not unified still fighting Poznan Uprising) and Warsaw

1919 (later months) - Warsaw


Where the capital is is very much a question of convenience, but the six areas which had Polish governments of some sort in 1918 would gravitate towards one state and denying any of them would cause a conflict to get these back and anyone who took them + access to the sea at the mouth of Vistula of course.

If there is anything certain to define borders of a polish state given no dramatic changes in ethnical composition are made (wide scale ethnical cleansings on massive scale, A-bombs or genocide) all those territories either must be inside it or would be a cause of war in predictable future (approximatelly one generation).