Whine-DVIP WAD or just bad luck?

[unmerged(132134)]

Hi all. Longtime lurker, first post.

First, the usual first post suck-up. Love the game. I bought CK-DV about 3-4 months ago and have been playing it almost non-stop since.

Just this morning I DLed the DVIP mod and started a new game as the Duke of Flanders, I was looking forward to a "new" experience with the mod. I lasted about 20-25 years, having one bad luck streak after another, before I gave up. I was getting my ass handed to me by one bad event after another, poor heirs, and finally, after refusing a dozen requests to mobilize for the King of France, ended up excommunicated and at war with France and Germany, which I had no hope of winning. Well, I thought "ces't la CK-DV", if it was always easy it wouldn't be fun, lets try again.

This time I started as the Count of Carcasonne. I'd played it once before and had reasonable success (always nice to have a few moslem sheiks nearby to kick around). Despite getting lucky with my early court members, I again had nothing but one bad event after another, every child who graduated got the worst possible results (misguided warrior, hole in the pocket, finger in the nose, thumb up the ass). Alright, I made those last two up but it just seemed that whatever could go wrong, did. Anyway, I know playing as a count requires patience, so I was utterly unable to do anything except slowly build up and watch my neighbours prosper. Thats alright, I'll wait for my chance to expand when it comes, and then I'll pounce. On the bright side, my count did have 5 children, two sons and three daughters. One son, in particular, looked quite capable and one daughter as well. Both offspring had way better stats than not only their siblings but their dad as well when they were only 10 years old. So I had hope. All bad luck comes to an end eventually, right?

Then a new event struck -
1082-08-29 : September 30, 1082 : A child's abilities have declined significantly happened to us.

Arrggh, my lovely daughter, who I was planning to make my new steward upon coming of age, is whacked with a stupid stick. Oh, well, better her than my heir to be, still going strong.

A little while later...

1082-11-12 : December 13, 1082 : A child's abilities have declined significantly happened to us.

Arrggh, my son, apple of my eye, trained from childbirth to be my heir, is struck dumb with the same stupid stick. In one cruel blow, he has gone from savant to idiot. In less than three months, my dreams for the future smashed. Both children with promise now gone, reduced to gibbering idiots, just like their siblings.

My reaction? First, I laugh, but there is a hint of madness in my cackles. Then I cry, I weep like a little child who just dropped his ice-cream cone in the sandbox. Then, I quit, surrendered, gave up, and swore to never play the game again.

Alright, I think I have recovered now but I have one question for y'all. Is the DVIP mod designed to do this? I mean make the game harder by kicking ya in the nuts every few seconds? Is it for hard-core experienced crusaders who want a real challenge? I don't mind a hard, thoughtful game (I wouldn't be a CK-DV player at all, if I did) but I consider myself a casual gamer who likes history and a bit of fun. If DVIP makes the game nothing but a long streak of bad luck, I will get rid of it. If, however, I'm just the victim of a really bad luck streak (twice) then I'll give it another try.

 

[orimazd]

Yeah, DVIP is designed for that. Supposedly they say that few character should have stats that are above ten in anything, but ais often have good characters and I figure they should exempt prodigies from that event (though it doesn't). I can see it hitting every child once, but it hits every child until all their stats are below ten. It will sometimes leave a character with three zeroes and a five. What a waste.

I hate it. One day I will terminate that event from my game with extreme prejudice.

 

[unmerged(109735)]

Hello Rex!

The events you are experiencing are designed not just to make the game harder in a random way, but to address the issue of the character stats in DV being far higher than those in CK. Many people hate that and would like to see CK-like stats, where everything over 10 is very good and values over 20 unheard-of. The only solution to get DV stats back to CK levels seems to be these events. Here's an entire thread on the topic.

 

[TempestDK]

I beleive that if you install DVIP without the add-on, then the child-bashing event is not present. Though I haven't really updated my DVIP since 9.2, so I can't really be sure.

But glad that you like CK-DV ... it is very addictive, even after so many years.

Some like the stats high, and some want more realistic stats ... so you can play with or without the events. Also I believe some have revised the events to make the impact a little less harsh. But I guess you can read that in the thread Guiscard supplied.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I beleive that if you install DVIP without the add-on, then the child-bashing event is not present. Though I haven't really updated my DVIP since 9.2, so I can't really be sure.

But glad that you like CK-DV ... it is very addictive, even after so many years.

Some like the stats high, and some want more realistic stats ... so you can play with or without the events. Also I believe some have revised the events to make the impact a little less harsh. But I guess you can read that in the thread Guiscard supplied.

I believe this is correct and I think I even had a thread on getting DVIP installed with out the "All Children Left Behind/All Children Shoved Behind" events.

I haven't seen them in my DVIP game so I think I avoided this.

 

[unmerged(132134)]

Thanx to all for your answers. Now that I know its WAD I don't feel so angry.

Just read the link supplied by the_Guiscard, I had no idea that character stats in DV were that much better than the original. I considered 9-10 to be about the average stat! In my second game I had a duke with Intrigue 21 so I thought about 1/2 that would be a reasonable average. Yikes, was I wrong.

I will now look at my crappy heirs in a new light.

Actually, now that I think about it, the game had been too easy lately. If I can build an Empire with a M3-D4-I2-S5 ruler, I will have accomplished something. If I can...

 

[orimazd]

Hello Rex!

The events you are experiencing are designed not just to make the game harder in a random way, but to address the issue of the character stats in DV being far higher than those in CK. Many people hate that and would like to see CK-like stats, where everything over 10 is very good and values over 20 unheard-of. The only solution to get DV stats back to CK levels seems to be these events. Here's an entire thread on the topic.

But why do you beat down the prodigies, too? They are supposed to be smarter than everyone else, not equals.

 

[unmerged(109735)]

But why do you beat down the prodigies, too? They are supposed to be smarter than everyone else, not equals.

I hope you are not asking this of me, are you? I did neither write these events nor defend them, merely explain the reasoning behind them. It's jordakelf you'd have to pose this question to.

 

[MistMage]

There was actually some talk about this a week or two back (that may or may not have been about this particular event. Heh.) in this thread. There I also posted an alternative event that I made based on another proposed alternative that I saw in the DVIP discussion thread (I think) back when I was looking into it. Feel free to give it a try if you want.

 

[orimazd]

I hope you are not asking this of me, are you? I did neither write these events nor defend them, merely explain the reasoning behind them. It's jordakelf you'd have to pose this question to.

Sorry. I was asking anyone who can answer.

 

[saskganesh]

I like this mod as it brings stats down in line (closer to CK). But it hasn't been extensively playested.

I have had prodigies with stats < 5. I have had Brilliant Strategists with martial ratings of 3. But I have also had some characters with stats of 16 plus. and sometimes, very rarely, 20. You've had bad luck.

The next step - and I don't know if the modder has time or interest - to create exceptions in the event codings for the characters who are supposed to be "above average."

It's good work but it could be great. Thing is, the mod may become irrelevant if and when Johan's next final patch comes out. So I understand if jorakelf doesn't want to get into it.

Mistmage: I might want to look into your tweak. thanks.

 

[Fall of Stars]

I've tweaked these events in my personal copy to a) raise the MTTH to 36 months, and b) exempt prodigies and the appropriate top-level education traits - in case education finishes before 16 and they're still vulnerable. This is a fairly rare case, but I wanted to be sure. (Note that Mastermind Theologians are immune to all three non-martial stat hits, but considering that their bonuses are more moderate I figured this was fine.)

Just replace the appropriate section in db/events/wiz.txt. Since I can't play tonight, I'd like some feedback on whether the MTTH is too high, and whether I've spelled the trait flags right.

###################################### 
# Countering CKDV's crazy ass skills # 
######################################

character_event = { #Martial
   id = 9530 

   picture = "event_education" 

   trigger = { 
      condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = prodigy } }
      condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = brilliant_strategist } }
      condition = { type = age value = 12 }
      condition = { type = not value = { type = age value = 16 } } 
	  condition = { type = or
		condition = { type = martial value = 10 }
		condition = { type = and
			condition = { type = martial value = 8 }
			condition = { type = diplomacy value = 8 }
		}
		condition = { type = and
			condition = { type = martial value = 8 }
			condition = { type = intrigue value = 8 }
		}
		condition = { type = and
			condition = { type = martial value = 8 }
			condition = { type = stewardship value = 8 }
		}
	  }
   } 

   mean_time_to_happen = { 
      months = 36 
   } 

   immidiate = { 
      effect = { type = random_list 
		 10 = { type = no_effect }
         25 = { type = martial value = -1 } 
         20 = { type = martial value = -2 } 
         18 = { type = martial value = -3 }  
         17 = { type = martial value = -4 } 
         10 = { type = martial value = -5 } 
      } 
   } 
}

character_event = { #Diplomacy
   id = 9531 

   picture = "event_education" 

   trigger = { 
      condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = prodigy } }  
      condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = grey_eminence } }
      condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = mastermind_theologian } }
      condition = { type = age value = 12 } 
      condition = { type = not value = { type = age value = 16 } } 
	  condition = { type = or
		condition = { type = diplomacy value = 10 }
		condition = { type = and
			condition = { type = diplomacy value = 8 }
			condition = { type = martial value = 8 }
		}
		condition = { type = and
			condition = { type = diplomacy value = 8 }
			condition = { type = intrigue value = 8 }
		}
		condition = { type = and
			condition = { type = diplomacy value = 8 }
			condition = { type = stewardship value = 8 }
		}
	  }
   } 

   mean_time_to_happen = { 
      months = 36 
   } 

   immidiate = { 
      effect = { type = random_list 
		 10 = { type = no_effect }
         25 = { type = diplomacy value = -1 } 
         20 = { type = diplomacy value = -2 } 
         18 = { type = diplomacy value = -3 }  
         17 = { type = diplomacy value = -4 } 
         10 = { type = diplomacy value = -5 } 
      } 
   } 
}

character_event = { #Intrigue
   id = 9532 

   picture = "event_education" 

   trigger = { 
      condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = prodigy } }  
      condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = illusive_shadow } }
      condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = mastermind_theologian } }
      condition = { type = age value = 12 } 
      condition = { type = not value = { type = age value = 16 } } 
	  condition = { type = or
		condition = { type = intrigue value = 10 }
		condition = { type = and
			condition = { type = intrigue value = 8 }
			condition = { type = martial value = 8 }
		}
		condition = { type = and
			condition = { type = intrigue value = 8 }
			condition = { type = diplomacy value = 8 }
		}
		condition = { type = and
			condition = { type = intrigue value = 8 }
			condition = { type = stewardship value = 8 }
		}
	  }
   } 

   mean_time_to_happen = { 
      months = 36 
   } 

   immidiate = { 
      effect = { type = random_list 
		 10 = { type = no_effect }
         25 = { type = intrigue value = -1 } 
         20 = { type = intrigue value = -2 } 
         18 = { type = intrigue value = -3 }  
         17 = { type = intrigue value = -4 } 
         10 = { type = intrigue value = -5 } 
      } 
   } 
}

character_event = { #Stewardship
   id = 9533 

   picture = "event_education" 

   trigger = { 
      condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = prodigy } }  
      condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = midas_touched } }
      condition = { type = not value = { type = trait value = mastermind_theologian } }
      condition = { type = age value = 12 } 
      condition = { type = not value = { type = age value = 16 } } 
	  condition = { type = or
		condition = { type = stewardship value = 10 }
		condition = { type = and
			condition = { type = stewardship value = 8 }
			condition = { type = martial value = 8 }
		}
		condition = { type = and
			condition = { type = stewardship value = 8 }
			condition = { type = diplomacy value = 8 }
		}
		condition = { type = and
			condition = { type = stewardship value = 8 }
			condition = { type = intrigue value = 8 }
		}
	  }
   } 

   mean_time_to_happen = { 
      months = 36 
   } 

   immidiate = { 
      effect = { type = random_list 
		 10 = { type = no_effect }
         25 = { type = stewardship value = -1 } 
         20 = { type = stewardship value = -2 } 
         18 = { type = stewardship value = -3 }  
         17 = { type = stewardship value = -4 } 
         10 = { type = stewardship value = -5 } 
      } 
   } 
}