Which Saxon characters are missing?

[Sleight of Hand]

I remember reading a thread a few days ago in which someone said that several notable Anglo-Saxon characters are missing from CK II, including the fabled Lady Godiva, wife of Leofric of Mercia. Unfortunately I can't remember who it was or which thread it was in, so I'll ask here.

Which other historical characters are missing? If they're historically verifiable and either of at least count-tier or a family member of an existing character then there's an argument for them being added, and I can create them and then submit their inclusion in the bug forum.

What say you?

 

[Bad_Haggis]

Herewad of Bourne, he might be there i havent checked that hard.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Hereward the Wake is already a character, yeah. I was just wondering if anyone else was missing, but I'll suggest Lady Godiva anyway because she's the mother of existing characters and should be alive in 1066.

 

[AndrewT]

Which Saxon characters are missing?

The thorn þ isn't present in the game, I believe.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

The thorn þ isn't present in the game, I believe.

Go to Hell, Andrew. :laugh:

Having looked at the dates, it seems many are wrong. I keep trying to do the math and it just doesn't work out, look:

5640 = {
	name="Leofric"
	# AKA: Leofric of Hwicce
	dynasty=560
	martial=6
	diplomacy=5
	intrigue=8
	stewardship=6
	religion="catholic"
	culture="saxon"
	add_trait="envious"
	add_trait="humble"
	add_trait="cynical"
	add_trait="skilled_tactician"
	968.1.2={
		birth="968.1.2"
	}
	1057.1.2={
		death="1057.1.2"
	}
}

5642 = {
	name="Ælfgar"
	# AKA: Ælfgar Leofricson
	dynasty=560
	martial=7
	diplomacy=5
	intrigue=6
	stewardship=4
	religion="catholic"
	culture="saxon"
	add_trait="skilled_tactician"
	father=5640
	985.1.2={
		birth="985.1.2"
	}
	1059.1.2={
		death="1059.1.2"
	}
}

These are Godiva's husband and son respectively. Was Leofric really that young when he became a father? Not unheard of I know, but Godiva apparently died at some point after 1066, but she'd have to have been born before 970 if Ælfgar was born in 985, which I also doubt.

I can't really bothered to re-do all of these dates (I've already revamped the entire file) so I'll let someone else work it out.

 

[Galle]

England's succession law still isn't feudal elective. That has nothing to do with any sense of the word "characters," but it's relevant to Saxon England and I'm not letting it go until PI fixes it.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

England's succession law still isn't feudal elective. That has nothing to do with any sense of the word "characters," but it's relevant to Saxon England and I'm not letting it go until PI fixes it.

Alas I fear your cause is in vain. I've been complaining about this pretty consistently since the game's release -- and believe me, I've started a lot of threads in the bug forum.

I suspect it's for balance, because once the Normans take over they're stuck with Feudal Elective and then things really do go to Hell. Ideally they could add an event which changes the succession type once someone in the Latin culture group becomes king.

All of the Saxon duchies should be Gavelkind also.

 

[NezzeOne]

The thorn þ isn't present in the game, I believe.

Oh you.

 

[antigravitycat]

Sleight, good topic!
Although I like your initiative, I'd like to draw your attention to some other "saxon issues" in this game. Maybe this is important to you too, as you seem to have interest in the historically correct representation of saxons ingame. So maybe you adress these things too in your thread, you seem to be good in these things, much better than me.
I'd like if PI corrected that miserable culture mis-naming for saxons/anglo-saxons. Saxons have to be in north germany, period. Anglo-saxons (as the followers of hengist/horsa were angles, saxons, jutes and frisians) should be the culture set in England. This is an issue that drives me mad...
E.g. Heinrich I wasn't a german, he was saxon, he spoke saxon, was duke of saxony, still ingame his culture is german. Same for Otto I (even for him very debatable to call him a german btw.), etc. pp.
Also, they misplaced the duchy of saxony, which should be where ingame is the duchy of brunswick-lüneburg. It was only after 1180 that the Askanians (the rulers of Meissen, formerly Angria) aquired the saxon title.
And other placing issues with Magdeburg, not only in Otto's dukal time a very important city, one of the most advanced and prosperous, is a bishopric ingame, why on earth? Even worse, it is placed in region that belogs to the kingdom of pomerania, isn't this a bit absurd?

For the love of (the) god(s), help getting the devs' attention to this. Sorry for the hijacking. :S


Regarding your topic, it would be interesting if PI added characters that were back in the very early days, like the early kings of the anglo-saxons. Is Aethelbert I in the game? Charlemagne is ingame, okay, but from what I've seen the history ingame doesn't go back far for many other, less "important" regions. It is quite tedious clicking through all those menus to find out who held what where and when. Is there an easier way maybe?

 

[Bloodmerchant]

I heard that the game crashes if you try to add the letter thorn. But the letter eth works.

 

[Galle]

Alas I fear your cause is in vain. I've been complaining about this pretty consistently since the game's release -- and believe me, I've started a lot of threads in the bug forum.

I suspect it's for balance, because once the Normans take over they're stuck with Feudal Elective and then things really do go to Hell. Ideally they could add an event which changes the succession type once someone in the Latin culture group becomes king

All of the Saxon duchies should be Gavelkind also.

Alternatively, just make it so that a successful Invasion changes the target title's succession laws to those of the conqueror's current primary title. That's what I've been doing and it's worked fine for me so far.

 

[Cap_Red1]

Regarding your topic, it would be interesting if PI added characters that were back in the very early days, like the early kings of the anglo-saxons. Is Aethelbert I in the game? Charlemagne is ingame, okay, but from what I've seen the history ingame doesn't go back far for many other, less "important" regions. It is quite tedious clicking through all those menus to find out who held what where and when. Is there an easier way maybe?

Well I am currently playing a game where I made the Atheling King of Jerusalem underneath the HRE and from what I can see looking at his character history, there are a fair number of early kings of the anglo-saxons. I guess it kinda makes sense, because the King of Scotland typically end up marrying his sister (as in history) so they needed to gen his family background.

 

[Bad_Haggis]

Alternatively, just make it so that a successful Invasion changes the target title's succession laws to those of the conqueror's current primary title. That's what I've been doing and it's worked fine for me so far.

CK2+ modded that in.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Siward Barn

Cyneweard of Laughern

Ælfwine Haroldsson

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Good finds, Veldmaarschalk.

I especially like Harald Harefoot's bastard son -- had no idea he existed.

Would Cyneweard only be baron level, or could we stretch him to be an earl of somewhere? What about Siward?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I would make both of them a count-level ruler, just to make them playable. But that is really the only reason, since they weren't really rulers of that level (a level that didn't really exist in England in those days). But then there are plenty of more rulers outside England who also were not of a count-level, but still are given a county-title.

 

[Orinsul]

A big problem is, our sources arent very good. Some characters we dont know who they were, or if they were two people or just one. Hereward is a good example, we dont know who his father was or even if he was english or danish! We think we know the name of his uncle but thats about it and every sources seems to contradict every other. The conquest didnt do good things for record keeping.

As to the cultures name issue gravitycat brought up, thats a dead issue. It was argued in CK1 that the english shouldnt be called saxons and the whole way through the development process. So its probably best to avoid it as its over and done with. Its just a way of keeping the two cultures from getting confused by giving vastly different names and i think paradox have proven theyre not going to budge on it.

Bishop Thurstan of Ely might be a good one, given his role in the resistance, but barons are pretty unimportant so probably its not worth it as any random character would have the same role.
Thegns would be baron right? so probably too small to worry about.

It might be worth looking for local lords or who was in the witan. But really itd be a lot of work for little to no benefit. In my mind anyway, its just not a good decade for getting sources from as the time when people would have been writing about it was filled with conquerors writing themselves into it so theres not much in the way of credible evidence.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

@Veld,

True, plus there are relatively few Saxon rulers in 1066, and a few more would make things a bit more interesting. (I've also submitted some fixes for Morcar and Eadwine in the bug forum, though I don't know if you've seen them).

I think I'll make Ælfwine a courtier in c_rouergue (Toulouse) -- would you agree with that?

Finally, do you think Paradox would be willing to add Cadoc as earl of Cornwall for a couple of years before Brian of Penthièvre?

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Here's what I've come up with for Ælfwine:

85019 = {
	name="Ælfwine"
	# AKA: Elfwine Haraldson
	dynasty=490
	martial=4
	diplomacy=8
	intrigue=6
	stewardship=9
	religion="catholic"
	culture="saxon"
	add_trait="bastard"
	add_trait="chaste"
	add_trait="zealous"
	add_trait="detached_priest"
	father=101513
	1036.12.6={
		birth="1036.12.6"
	}
	1040.3.17={
		add_claim = k_england
	}
	1060.1.1 = {
		employer=336
	}
	1083.7.4={
		death="1083.7.4"
	}
}

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

@Veld,

True, plus there are relatively few Saxon rulers in 1066, and a few more would make things a bit more interesting. (I've also submitted some fixes for Morcar and Eadwine in the bug forum, though I don't know if you've seen them).

Yes I have seen your posts

I think I'll make Ælfwine a courtier in c_rouergue (Toulouse) -- would you agree with that?

Is fine with me

Finally, do you think Paradox would be willing to add Cadoc as earl of Cornwall for a couple of years before Brian of Penthièvre?

You can always post it in the bug-forum, who knows if they pick it up.