Which nation?

[JCan]

Apologies if there's a dedicated thread for this sort of thing, but I've been deliberating over which nation to be in my next game (Divine Wind).

Obviously I want a bit of a challenge, but I'm not exactly an expert at this game.

Ideally I'd like to be in Europe and not really involved in the HRE. I'm a bit sick of Castille, Portugal, England, France.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Cheers.

 

[hluraven]

Naples maybe? Not in HRE, can expand early into the Balkans for an easier start, and longer term can form a non-HRE Italy for more of a challenge

 

[JCan]

Naples maybe? Not in HRE, can expand early into the Balkans for an easier start, and longer term can form a non-HRE Italy for more of a challenge

I think Naples might be a goer, yep. Never played as an Italian faction before, should be interesting.

 

[n0thin]

Really depends on what you want to do. Not being involved in the HRE is kinda hard for any European power, as it's just so much in the center. Naples for example usually wants to unite Italy, so it will have to mess a lot with the HREmperor.

Denmark, Hungary and Poland are in similar positions: Not in the HRE, but usually forced to deal with the Emperor at some time. The only real possibilities to not mess with the HRE are being far enough away (Russia, Ottomans) or being a peaceful trader and concentrating on colonization (Holland, Mecklenburg on the HRE side, Brittany or Ireland on the other hand).

 

[JCan]

I think Brittany or any of the Irish factions might be a bit too difficult for me at this stage.

I did briefly consider Burgundy, but am I right in thinking it can easily become a bit of a clusterf**k playing as them?

 

[Ruanek]

Burgundy has a good starting position, but both France and Austria want their land. It can be manageable, though.

I've noticed that Burgundy is a popular choice for electors to back...

 

[n0thin]

Burgundy is one of the strongest countries to possibly start with in 1399. They have AMAZING sliders, rich land and get free missions for even richer lands (Netherlands). Additionally, they are in the HRE, giving them the possibility for free cores on inheriting, while also being in the French culture group, so if you can get France in a PU, you're golden. Later than you can re-form France yourself
The only comparably strong starting option for a WC is England into France (cultural switch after the Occupy Paris mission).
Basically, build up in the beginning, so you can beat France. If you won the first war against France, there is pretty much nothing able to stop you anymore.

 

[DABegley]

Are you considering the peripheral European states as well? The Baltic states can be fun (Denmark, Sweden, Teutonic Knights), Eastern Europe countries have their good points (Poland, Lithuania, Muscovy) and the Balkans offers that old favorite the Byz. My top three for European fun would be Sweden, the Byz and Lithuania.

Sweden has to deal with lots of countries and has a lousy economy but can dominate the Baltic coast and play havoc with the northern HRE states. Just make sure you have enough magistrates to force provinces to leave the HRE once you take them.

The Byz, once they retake their cores, are heavily pulled into Italy by their missions and are almost forced to take on Castile, Austria, Bohemia etc. as they retake the Mediterranean coast. Also keep plenty of magistrates around for HRE removal.

Lithuania can march into central Europe through Hungary/Poland once they deal with the Golden Horde. The Blob wars with Bohemia can be massive.

Enjoy. I am a Byz fan myself having had many epic wars with Austria/Bohemia but have had fun overrunning the German plains with Novgorod or Lithuania as well.

 

[JCan]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm now trying to decide between Naples, Burgundy and Denmark.

 

[Richard-monagha]

Denmark will start with leading a PU with both Norway and Sweden. The good thing is if you inherit them you will gain cores on it all and can then form the new nation of Scandinavia, But as Denmark you'd need to conquer fast and early and build up a decent sized army to stop Sweden from insulting you and leaving the PU.

With Burgundy you'll get many mission to conquer nearby smaller nations such as Brabant, Luxemburg ect with free cores on them. If you have decent allies you can also royal marriage France if they accept and claim their throne + declare war with your allies to force them into a PU but you'd need more troops than them to keep them in their place (free cores upon inheriting). Also France and England have cores on you so expect them to hit you but being in the HRE the emperor should help to protect you if they like you.

Naples have cores on Scily and is one of the stronger nations within Italy once you've taken them out. Not played them myself but,in order to form the nation of italy you'd need to go to war with the HRE loads as most of the northern states are within the HRE.

 

[Gnorf]

Are you considering the peripheral European states as well? The Baltic states can be fun (Denmark, Sweden, Teutonic Knights), Eastern Europe countries have their good points (Poland, Lithuania, Muscovy) and the Balkans offers that old favorite the Byz. My top three for European fun would be Sweden, the Byz and Lithuania.

Sweden has to deal with lots of countries and has a lousy economy but can dominate the Baltic coast and play havoc with the northern HRE states. Just make sure you have enough magistrates to force provinces to leave the HRE once you take them.

The Byz, once they retake their cores, are heavily pulled into Italy by their missions and are almost forced to take on Castile, Austria, Bohemia etc. as they retake the Mediterranean coast. Also keep plenty of magistrates around for HRE removal.

Lithuania can march into central Europe through Hungary/Poland once they deal with the Golden Horde. The Blob wars with Bohemia can be massive.

Enjoy. I am a Byz fan myself having had many epic wars with Austria/Bohemia but have had fun overrunning the German plains with Novgorod or Lithuania as well.

I would hardly call Sweden a baltic state. Their economy gets better once you've encouraged immigration to all your fur and iron provinces and blobbed into Russia.

 

[unmerged(37198)]

I would hardly call Sweden a baltic state. Their economy gets better once you've encouraged immigration to all your fur and iron provinces and blobbed into Russia.

Sweden eco will be fine when you can pick up a couple of NI's and have sorted your trade slider out

 

[n0thin]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm now trying to decide between Naples, Burgundy and Denmark.

While Denmark and Naples are of a kind of similar power level, Burgundy is a huge juggernaut and you will not have much of a challenge left after you won your first war vs France, which you should be able to pretty early.
The problem with Denmark is, that you need to grow pretty fast, if you want to stop Sweden from insulting you, otherwise they will eventually break the PU. If you are able to keep them in and eventually inherit them and Norway, therefore uniting Scandinavia, you will be pretty strong.
As Naples you have a rather good powerbase after you conquered Sicily, but you will need to continually fight for the HREmperor if you want to form Italy.

In my opinion, Burgundy should be to easy. Naples on the other hand has a pretty good, but not to strong position, with some advantages and some disadvantages, giving you a challenge for some time, but still being manageable. Would therefore recommend Naples. Denmark is also possible, but rather poor and can sometimes be annoying.

 

[MetaAdInfinitum]

I tried Manchu on a whim as my first non-European power and it was probably my best experience on EUIII.

Brittany is my general favourite and they have an immediate CB on Naples, which tends to lead to some interesting Italian games if you opt to liberate Epirus. My only advice is to consciously avoid forming France and go for a more naval Empire.

Aragon is also a pet favourite of mine though I tend to basically turn into Spain anyway. I kind of wish that there was more of a tie between the D'oc languages of Southern France and Eastern Spain which were seen as they basically indistinguishable around the start date of 1399. I've tried to mod it myself and failed. It still has the potential to be interesting if you're willing to avoid playing the Spainish game they tilt you towards [focus on Italy and try to net Provence].

My favourite OPMs are Irish [but honestly, the first 5 years are luck and restarting because if England declares you are screwed].

 

[Streletz]

Naples could be fun. In my Naples game I wanted to form italy, but I couldn't because of HUGES Austria and Burgundy holding northen Italia. So I've take Sinai from Mamelouk and played a colonisation game. Naples is polyvalent.

Burgundy becomes boring after you defeated France, and that's often happen in the firsts 10-20 years of the game.

Byzantium is not involved in HRE, and is fun if you manage to beat Ottomans from the start.

If you want a really uncommon game start with a small country, manage to take a piece of land in India or Africa, move you capital there (switch the core time to 25 years to not wait to long), switch culture, and play. I had a fine game playing the Knights in Tunisia, conquering Africa.