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Faeelin

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Actually, how about this. Napoleon abolishes prussia at tilsit, packing the dynasty off to east prussia. Brandenburg is a duchy, as is silesia, which is returned to austria.

As a result, napoleon's victories in 1813 are better, and austria joins the french against russia.

Britain's capital is being burned very quickly, the british are about to march into southern france, but meanwhile the russians are opposed by the confederation in germany.

The war drags on until 1817. Britain's liquid assets are nearly gone, there are a series of awful harvests which in OTL were near famine. Here they're worse.

1817 sees the Emperor shot. Vom Stein leads the new federated german principalities along with the russians into warsaw, with the bavarian duke in particular shot.

By 1835, we have britain under ernest augustus clamping down on the demands to increase the franchise, russian control of all of poland, a militaristic bonapartist dynasty ruling northern italy and france, along with catalonia, and propping up its ally of austria. Germany is the sole beacon of hope, yet it's alternating between despotism under Vom Stein's successors and true federalism.

I give you... the 19th's century's For All Time!
 

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Originally posted by Faeelin

I give you... the 19th's century's For All Time!


Don't tell Chet!!!

I have an idea for an AH, although I'm not quiet sure how well it would translate into Vic. It would have Joseph Holt nominated as VP for Lincoln's second term. Holt, needless to say, becomes President upon Lincoln's death and goes on to lead a much more Repressive Reconstruction built upon the notion of vengeance against the South(he also has Jeff Davis executed as a traitor along with several other high ranking Confederates as he wanted to do in RL)

Holt leads a split in the Republican Party during the next election leading to a Democratic President over Grant. A series of other President's follow; the South begins to grow even more violent and there are attacks against Federal targets by secret organizations.

In the 1880's the Democrats manage to find a nominee who regains the White House after almost 15 years......George A. Custer. Custer's Presidency is one of repression; he openly allies with big buisness against the common people, who in turn become much more radical. Custer manages a 3rd term(the first PResident to do so) but his brother is utterly destroyed by the formation of the Populist Party who come to victory with William Jennings Bryan.

Bryan gets invovled in the Second Boer war against Britain and things just get.....odd.

By the end of the game time period you see a United States which is much more imperialistic then in OTL, but one in which the South is a seething sour, much like Northern Ireland today. The US is also increadibly Anglo-phobic and holds close relations(although not an alliance) with Germanyb
 

Faeelin

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Oh, it's a compliment to Chet. BTW, I suspect that if ireland can hold out, then the french have enough of control of the sea to invade England.
 

HolisticGod

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PoD,

My idea...

Arilou's fits, too, and I'd like to see a mod combining the three... A Balkanized North America, pressed between the Republic, the Russian Empire and Canada, a strong (perhaps monarchial, to add flavor) Mexico and a liberal Democratic union in South America (comprising, at least, Gran Colombia).
 

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Originally posted by snuggs
Pardon my ignorance but what did happen to Jefferson Davis - exile?

He died in 1889 in New Orleans; he did do a tour of Europe following the end of the war but returned to the South where he tried to keep a low profile outside of a few public appearances.
 

Earl Uhtred

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Originally posted by DanielMcCollum
He died in 1889 in New Orleans; he did do a tour of Europe following the end of the war but returned to the South where he tried to keep a low profile outside of a few public appearances.

Incredible :eek: fancy living on so long. I'm glad he escaped retribution.
 

HolisticGod

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Snuggs,

He was the chief perpetrator of a treason that claimed the lives of nearly four hundred thousand Americans.

If anyone deserved to hang, it was Jefferson Davis.

All,

Another, based (loosely, so loosely you could shake an NDA at it :D) on my experiences with the Victoria engine and the recent discussion of Napoleon.

L'Empereur
1835

On August 1st, 1835, the Emperor Napoleon I dies quietly at his country estate, his wife the Empress Josephine by his side. Heralds and journalists and even the fiercest social critics are at a loss in expressing this long expected and momentous expiration. They do not, precisely, know simply how to title him in the many obituaries printed in full, bound editions throughout the world-he has long since grown beyond nomatives of Consul, King or Emperor of France.

His domains stretch from Lusitania to Valencia, from the Straits of Gibraltar to the North Sea, from Sicily to Jutland, from the Atlantic to the Dneiper, and encompass North Africa and Egypt. He has in the space of one lifetime-indeed, in the space of a mere twenty-nine years, abolished the Europe of memory in its thinking and its practice. The Crowns of Spain, Portugal, Austro-Hungary, Prussia, the Netherlands, Denmark, Poland and Italy are no more.

Beyond this, however, is his surrender of official title in 1826, first to his wife, who administrated with great care to politics and social cohesion, and then to his son by a Polish noblewoman. He had retreated to dictate his memoirs, to write lengthy rules of warfare and of governance, and several political treatises. By 1832, however, his health had so declined that he could no longer perform these perfunctory roles in service of the state and ceased to be a part of it.

His son, Napoleon II, clung to the father's living memory as his greatest source of political capital. Following the year of Mass and general mourning, he comes to face his own inadequacies, both of talent and of birth, and the deep flaws of European administration. It has receded into an aristocratic muddle that is ill-prepared for changing ideas and technology.

From Germany, there are the Several Revolts, loosely cooperative rebellions of regional importance-in Bavaria, Brandenburg, Hesse, Austria and Hannover. In Hungary, there is profound resentment of its new Polish ruler and the centralized authority in Vienna. In Spain, the Netherlands and Portugal national Republican movements have grown into full-fledged revolutions, against the Monarch and the system he represents. In Poland, there is a keen, and only warily disappointed, sense that the Native Son would fill his Ministries with Native Blood, while in France the Old Guard and people watch carefully for just such a move.

From without, too, the threats are overwhelming. The Ottoman Empire, reformed under the brutal and brilliant Anatolian usurper Ahmed Kahn has become a formidable military power, employing the totality of its resources to the armament and progress of a compact, highly disciplined, well-trained force based on the new Sultan's elite Revolutionary Army. His recent moves to internalized political and industrial reforms have created a rapidly growing and mobile population on the verge of modernization. All the ambitious peasant-turned-dictator requires is a fleet and an opportunity, both of which loom ever nearer.

Russia, following the ratification of Alexander's treaty, entered a period of introspection. In 1823, the Tzar freed the serfs, purged the Boyars on the grounds of treason and began a slow, hazardous process of industrialization that, while not as fast and unrelenting as the Turks', presents perhaps greater dangers. The recent alliance with Great Britian demonstrates that the accord with the father does not necessarily extend to the son. Nor, indeed, does the fear of him.

Great Britian, unable to maintain the balance of power in Europe, has doubled the size of its fleet, put an end to the liberal movements and consolidated its hold over India. These measures, however, have succeeded largely by Napoleon's failing ambition and health, and the far less potent powers of his successor. It is clear that a Three Power coalition should be necessary to aide the revolutionaries on the continent, if any is to succeeded.

Across the Atlantic, the United States and Colombia, intact and formidable as a French ally against Spain, grow daily in number and in strength, but both face steep internal and external challenges. The landed, reactive gentry in the South and the highlands perpetually threaten any hope of liberal, democratic government. Both grapple with issues of class and slavery, and face great political instability.
 
Last edited:

Tim O

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Originally posted by HolisticGod
Snuggs,

He was the chief perpetrator of a treason that claimed the lives of nearly four hundred thousand Americans.

If anyone deserved to hang, it was Jefferson Davis.

It was 617,000 and I agree whole-heartedly:mad:

Great scenario, Holistic God :)
 

HolisticGod

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Tim,

Aye, but I specified Americans.

I suppose the number is higher, if one includes civilians killed in the south, particularly during the march to the sea, but I was discounting the numbers of his own followers he sent to their deaths.

Indeed, though, 617,000-as yet the most devestating war in US history, with its chief offenders-seditionists no less-let free, uncondemned and still widely lionized without question of patriotism.
 

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Originally posted by HolisticGod
Snuggs,

He was the chief perpetrator of a treason that claimed the lives of nearly four hundred thousand Americans.

If anyone deserved to hang, it was Jefferson Davis.

Treason, liberation war. I wonder how George Washington is seen in the US... Something tells me (naming your capitol after him kinda says it all, doesn't it :p) he's more of a national hero than a traitor. Had the South won, Davis and Lee combined would have been a Southern Washington.
 

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My absolute favorite will be a Turtledove Great War scenario. I think at first I'll just play something remote, like Siam, and watch how it all develops. :D

And then I'll start as the USA and stomp the bloody rebels into the dust.
 

Faeelin

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Originally posted by Suvorov
Treason, liberation war. I wonder how George Washington is seen in the US... Something tells me (naming your capitol after him kinda says it all, doesn't it :p) he's more of a national hero than a traitor. Had the South won, Davis and Lee combined would have been a Southern Washington.

And had Hitler won, he'd be a hero.

This does not make his actions right. Nor does it excuse Davis..
 

Syt

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Please, keep these poltical discussions to other places.
 

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How about this one: The US Constitutional Convention falls apart; the Articles of Confederation continue as the major form of government for the new nation. Over the next 15 years moderate reforms are done, but there remains very little central authority in the country.

In the early 1810's a crisis emerges; a boarder discrepency between Maryland and Virginia move the two states towards war. The national govenrment tries to intervene but is unable to do so; the Confederation dissolves leaving 13 countries where once there was one?