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High school - pah! The true history of the Mughal Empire lies here.Originally posted by Maur13
Oh my
King of the Romans=King of Germany (Rex Teutonicum). Elected on East Frankish soil (usually at Frankfurt), then crowned generally at Aachen or Frankfurt.
It was originally a union of Franconia, Saxony, Swabia, & Bavaria, plus the Saxon marches in the northeast (Brandenburg, Mecklenburg, Meissen, Lausitz, etc.) & the Bavarian marches in the south east (Austria, Styria, Carinthia, Carniola). Lotharingia was added in 925 by Henry I the Fowler, including all the Low Countries except Flanders & Artois.
Italy & Burgundy (Franche Comte, Bern, Savoy, Provence, Dauphine, etc.) were not parts of the Kingdom; they were parts of the Empire. The King of the "Romans" did not rule either unless he was also Emperor.
It was originally a union of Franconia, Saxony, Swabia, & Bavaria, plus the Saxon marches in the northeast (Brandenburg, Mecklenburg, Meissen, Lausitz, etc.) & the Bavarian marches in the south east (Austria, Styria, Carinthia, Carniola). Lotharingia was added in 925 by Henry I the Fowler, including all the Low Countries except Flanders & Artois.
Italy & Burgundy (Franche Comte, Bern, Savoy, Provence, Dauphine, etc.) were not parts of the Kingdom; they were parts of the Empire. The King of the "Romans" did not rule either unless he was also Emperor.
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King of the East Franks became King of the Germans, then called King of the Romans by Otto I to show his heir had the right to be crowned Emperor. King of the Germans/the Romans used interchangably thereafter, signifying a King of Germany who had the right to become Emperor. Once he was Emperor, he'd have his son elected and crowned King of the Germans/Romans. Both titles exactly the same in meaning and extent of rule. Neither imparted rule over Italy and/or Burgundy unless bearer was also Emperor. So as King, he ruled only over Germany; as Emperor, he ruled other lands as well.
There were a few Kings of Germany who were never Emperors; Conrads I, III, & IV, Henry I the Fowler, Philip I, Rudolf I (Habsburg), etc. So if there wasnt a King of Germany, just what exactly was Rudolf I? He certainly was NEVER Emperor...
There were a few Kings of Germany who were never Emperors; Conrads I, III, & IV, Henry I the Fowler, Philip I, Rudolf I (Habsburg), etc. So if there wasnt a King of Germany, just what exactly was Rudolf I? He certainly was NEVER Emperor...
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This discussion is boring....Different time got different situation. Sometimes France maybe stronger, and sometimes Germany is strong....It is meaningless for any effort to try to create a concerete answer.
Don't forget that once upon a time, there was Roman Empire together with Kingdom of Atlantis .....and Jurassic Republic....these 3 empires are under Earth Federation force in 2432AD.
Don't forget that once upon a time, there was Roman Empire together with Kingdom of Atlantis .....and Jurassic Republic....these 3 empires are under Earth Federation force in 2432AD.
"Different time got different situation" is exactly correct. This game begins in 1419, not in 1806 or 1990. Therefore, its the state of affairs in 1419 that matters, not that of 1806, unless I start in 1806. The political boundaries of 1806/1990 are completely irrelevant...unless youre gonna tell me that France in 1419 included Alsace-Lorraine just because it did later. Thats basically analogous to what Im hearing here...
The way that I define 'Germany' during this time ewright is the areas that contain German people and culture. Compare the 'Kingdom of Germany' in the 15th century with the 'Kingdom of France'. You're bound to find quite a few differences (as evidenced by the map at the time). Pokka does have a point though. There's really no way of knowing... Germany was so fragmented it couldn't possibly compete with 'France' during that time, so there's no real way of knowing. And Maur13, I appreciate you being so cool-headed through the argument. So many people I argue issues over make it into a flame-fest or a competition to prove who knows more, but I'm glad we both kept to the issues and were enjoyable to argue with.
(as evidenced by the map at the time). Pokka does have a point though. There's really no way of knowing... Germany was so fragmented it couldn't possibly compete with 'France' during that time, so there's no real way of knowing. And Maur13, I appreciate you being so cool-headed through the argument. So many people I argue issues over make it into a flame-fest or a competition to prove who knows more, but I'm glad we both kept to the issues and were enjoyable to argue with. 
But it was 400 years before Germany.Originally posted by Euro-Maniac
Neither was France in 1419.
Originally posted by Trip
But it was 400 years before Germany.
and.....
It was 400 years before Mexico too so what?
A fief of flanders, which I never denied btw, does not make it French
Flanders has been ruled by Germans, Austrians, Burgundians ,Spanish, ... but it never was German, Austrian, Burgundian, Spanish, ... As I said before if u can take an unified HRE in 1419 as "Germany" u can also put Napoleontic France from 1806 as " France" or the "Italian" Roman Empire of 44 on the other side.
Bah, Mexico never did anything. Germany was the strongest country in the world!Originally posted by Euro-Maniac
and.....
Originally posted by Trip
Bah, Mexico never did anything. Germany was the strongest country in the world!
Of course they did they gave the world TACO BELL hohohoho!!!
If youre talking about "culture" BiB, then of course youre right. I thought we were discussing political boundaries only. If thats the case, then Flanders was absolutely irrefutably part of the Kingdom of France from 864 (but wasnt "French" in culture), and Brabant and the others were incontestably part of the Kingdom of Germany from 925-1548. As was Switzerland until 1499, even though it is "Swiss" cultured. If we're going by culture, I should lose Carniola; but we all know that was part of Germany. Same thing. And I shouldnt even have to address the Austria issue, because its just ridiculous to claim it wasnt an integral part of Germany from 976-1806 when it most certainly was.
And you keep making the distinction that Im using the HRE as Germany; that is definitely not the case. If I was, then Id claim Franche Comte as well as northern Italy. I do not, because although they were imperial fiefs, they were never part of the Kingdom of Germany. The German King did not rule them unless he was also Emperor. So clearly, I am distinguishing between which lands pertained only to the German crown and which lands pertained to the Empire in 1419-1548.
Despite the question about which "country" in EU2 is stronger, The Netherlands (sans Flanders & Artois) were part of the Kingdom of Germany from 925-1548, and that is simply a fact. If Im wrong, then provide evidence instead of rehashing erroneous opinions based on a modern concept of Europe and I will GLADLY strike them from my list. I told you I looked up any provinces I was unsure about; had I found that they werent part of Germany in 1419/92, Id cut them loose. But they were.
And you keep making the distinction that Im using the HRE as Germany; that is definitely not the case. If I was, then Id claim Franche Comte as well as northern Italy. I do not, because although they were imperial fiefs, they were never part of the Kingdom of Germany. The German King did not rule them unless he was also Emperor. So clearly, I am distinguishing between which lands pertained only to the German crown and which lands pertained to the Empire in 1419-1548.
Despite the question about which "country" in EU2 is stronger, The Netherlands (sans Flanders & Artois) were part of the Kingdom of Germany from 925-1548, and that is simply a fact. If Im wrong, then provide evidence instead of rehashing erroneous opinions based on a modern concept of Europe and I will GLADLY strike them from my list. I told you I looked up any provinces I was unsure about; had I found that they werent part of Germany in 1419/92, Id cut them loose. But they were.
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I refer u to my earlier posts on the matter
If u can claim Germany regardless of culture because it once was part of sommink called Germany I can claim France under Napoleon or Italy under the Romans
What for? Taking the state of a nation at some point in history to prove ur point?
2 can play that game.Not at "some point". At the point the game starts. So youre saying that even if the game starts in 1419/92, Germany's boundaries are those of 1990?
And to answer my own question; Philip the Handsome did homage to the French king for Flanders because it was part of France. Thats pretty much that.
And to answer my own question; Philip the Handsome did homage to the French king for Flanders because it was part of France. Thats pretty much that.