Which country is the most missing in EU?

[unmerged(452)]

I would like to see the following countries to be added to EU (EU2 ?):

- Samarkand/Bukhara: the home of Timur Khan, who in the 15th century tried to follow the mongols' empire building path. The Golden Horde is a leftover in the west. Surely the great cities in central asia should be in the game rather than be hidden by terra incognita (incognita being the last thing these cities were)
- Java: one of the richest (spice trading) and very well developed countries in the 15th century. Surely it did not disappear over night. Religion was Hindu, so Bali could be considered the left overs from that country
- Korea, most certainly
- Siam (the province of Bangkok in the game): They had a lively trading relationship with the Dutch. Together with Japan the only Asian country never colonized (should warrant rather good diplomacy values for their kings).
- Burma: the main rival of the Siam kingdom until they were conquered by the Brits.
- Mali: The fabulously rich country (based on gold from the river Niger) of the 15th century.
- Zulu: they arrived in South Africa at the same time as the Dutch and English, and created quite some problems for the English
- EthiopiaOne of the oldest Christian kingdoms, afaik it existed through the last 2000 years.
- Maori (in New Zealand) had a well developed warrior culture and did the give the English a good run for their money.

- It would be nice if the inhabitants of unowned provinces from time to time went on a looting tour to neighbouring colonies / tradeposts. Occasionally such a province might develop into a country of its own, particularly if it is next to one or more colonies. After all, all natives learned from the colonists in some way or another. Those two features would have the added benefit of making colonization much harder, thus more closely reflecting the situations the early colonists were faced with.

And get rid of all the terra incognita everywhere. Local people did exist in most areas and they certainly knew their surroundings, even if that knowledge had not spread to Europe. Make difficult terrain very difficult (extreme attrition for outsiders) but put it into the game, PLEASE.

/zwingli


[This message has been edited by zwingli (edited 12-01-2001).]

[This message has been edited by zwingli (edited 12-01-2001).]

 

[Hartmann]

The Golden Horde was not a leftover of the Timurids. Instead the Horde (which was a result of the uniting of the 'Blue Horde' and the 'White Horde' were direct descendants of Juchi, a son of Dschingis Khan, who inherited and expanded the most western part of the Empire. Timur was only partly of Mongolian descent. The Timurids were (as good as) gone in 1492. The Moguls were their descendants, though, as Babur, the first Mogul Khan, was a greatgreatgreatgrandson of Timur.
The Savavids took their place in Persia.

But Timur delivered an almost fatal blow to the Golden Horde in 1389, which ultimately led to the independence of the Muscovites as well as to the splitting of Astrachan, Crimea and Kazan from the Horde in the middle of the 15th century.
This is the situation we have in EU at 1492

Regards, Hartmann

[This message has been edited by Hartmann (edited 12-01-2001).]

 

[unmerged(590)]

IMHO, the Hansa should not be represented as a geopolitical entity, and should be replaced by various single-province states.

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''Spass muss sein', sagt die Katze zum Vogeln, und frass ihn.'

 

[Bobbey]

Well well well, you all fogott småland!!!
(Smaland)

Nils Dacke had a kingdom of Smaland for a whole year before that scum Wasa with hired german knights could finally defeat us...

Well the castle of Kalmar was never surrendered... but Wasa slaughtered the garnission after the war... the last time
in his life that he cried.
(He wrote in his diary)
Why, because they demanded a higher sallary... no unions back in those days

//
Bobbey - A real smålänning (Smalandian?)

 

[Hartmann]

Originally posted by sisyphus:
IMHO, the Hansa should not be represented as a geopolitical entity, and should be replaced by various single-province states.

But they WERE a 'geopolitical entity' albeit not an ordinary kingdom, but a confederation. They very well had some sort of a standing army and common 'foreign affairs' politics. In the heyday of the Hansa, joining them was a very appealing option for a city, because of the freedom and shelter the organisation provided. The REAL problem is, that the EU engine treats all states/nations alike and does not provide for different forms of stately organization. (The HRE has it´s special rules, though. But even these should be enhanced somewhat.)

Hartmann

 

[unmerged(372)]

Holstein can be made independant. It is called SHL. btw, in a files called revolt.txt, it gives the important provinces for states that can exist in the game (all the ones that are there now, and the ones which can form), so you can use that for a quide marker.

 

[Hartmann]

Originally posted by Greven:
. For example the core are of a possible independent state cannot be one that share its core area with the core area of another country. Thus the Byzantine Empire was counted out.

I see. But if it´s mainly an issue of where the capital is located, then Greece (not the Byzantine Empire!) could show up with Morea, Hellas and the Kyklades and it´s capital at Hellas. Wouldn´t this be feasible?

Hartmann

 

[unmerged(590)]

Originally posted by Hartmann:
But they WERE a 'geopolitical entity' albeit not an ordinary kingdom, but a confederation. They very well had some sort of a standing army and common 'foreign affairs' politics.

But the Hansa did have problems with wars between the various cities in the union. As for the standing army, I don't agree:

Britannica.com:
[14th century:] The league had no constitution and no permanent army, navy, or governing body except for periodic assemblies (diets). These were convened less and less frequently from the early 15th century, as the towns' peculiar and regional interests began to outweigh their common concerns.

(Yes, I know that internet sources lack validity, but I noticed that Johan, Sapura or Greven did it too.)

I still think that the Hansa should be replaced by the kingdoms of Mecklemburg, Pomerania, Holstein and possibly Bremen. Maybe they should start in an alliance, and recieve some trade bonus, but in 1492, the Hansa itself had no real power, and should not be represented at a higher level than its various city states.


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''Spass muss sein', sagt die Katze zum Vogeln, und frass ihn.'

 

[Hartmann]

sisyphus wrote:

'I still think that the Hansa should be replaced by the kingdoms of Mecklemburg, Pomerania, Holstein and possibly Bremen. Maybe they should start in an alliance, and recieve some trade bonus, but in 1492, the Hansa itself had no real power, and should not be represented at a higher level than its various city states.'

You´re right about the Hansa having lost most of it´s power (and internal cohesion) by 1492. So maybe Your solution of putting in these small duchies and letting them have good relations and an alliance to start with is worth considering after all.
In fact the 'standing army' I spoke of was always the several armies/fleets of the single cities. If we would go into more depth I would have to look up sources, too, but AFAI remember, in times of war against a common enemy they very well used to organise these armies into a larger force under a unified command.

Regards, Hartmann



[This message has been edited by Hartmann (edited 15-01-2001).]

 

[unmerged(452)]

Originally posted by Hartmann:
The Golden Horde was not a leftover of the Timurids. Instead the Horde (which was a result of the uniting of the 'Blue Horde' and the 'White Horde' were direct descendants of Juchi, a son of Dschingis Khan, who inherited and expanded the most western part of the Empire.

I stand corrected...

Timur was only partly of Mongolian descent. The Timurids were (as good as) gone in 1492. The Moguls were their descendants, though, as Babur, the first Mogul Khan, was a greatgreatgreatgrandson of Timur.
The Savavids took their place in Persia.

But Timur delivered an almost fatal blow to the Golden Horde in 1389, which ultimately led to the independence of the Muscovites as well as to the splitting of Astrachan, Crimea and Kazan from the Horde in the middle of the 15th century.
This is the situation we have in EU at 1492

I know that the Timurites did not exist anymore in 1492. I only want to see the cities included in the game, like Samarkand and Bukhara. After all they were around a long time both before and after 1492. It seems odd that they should be terra incognita, does it not?

/zwingli

 

[Hartmann]

Originally posted by zwingli:

I only want to see the cities included in the game, like Samarkand and Bukhara. After all they were around a long time both before and after 1492. It seems odd that they should be terra incognita, does it not?

You´re absolutely right. I second You on that!

Hartmann

 

[Mariani]

I know, 'there's an echo in here', but Ethiopia was a grave oversight...
As much as it pains me, with my dreams of Venetian dominance, the Republic of Ragusa should be coded in...

also:
*Pisa could split from Tuscany
*A catholic presence in the low countries...Belgium/Flanders?
*Crusader kingdoms in the Holy Land (Antioch, Jerusalem)
*Greece (pardon me if it's already in there)
*Brittany
*Bulgaria
*Lithuania (pagan leaders would be cool! yippee for oak trees!)
*Zulu
*Serbia
*Verona (province of mantua?)
*Armenia
*Novgorod
*Siam
*Korea
*various sub-national splits...i.e. french hugenots

think that covers it. just about


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'A set of local sovereign states can be no more than a transitory political configuration.'- Toynbee

 

[Johan]

Originally posted by Mariani:
*A catholic presence in the low countries...Belgium/Flanders?
Burgundy is in the game.

*Brittany
They can form.

*Zulu
Well, we have the bantu state that can form in that area already.

*various sub-national splits...i.e. french hugenots
We got Provence.

/Johan

 

[Lubricus]

Mariani: The Lithuanians were not to any extent Pagan in 1492. They had become a mishmash of Catholic and Orthodox faiths, but mostly Catholic, after pressure from Poland, among others. The Lithuanian Pagans had their heyday in the thirteenth century, I think.

 

[Warspite]

tahiti

 

[unmerged(703)]

Originally posted by Johan:


*various sub-national splits...i.e. french hugenots
We got Provence.

That explain why Provence keeps on rioting all the time...... There will be no hugenot state in my game THAT'S for sure ;-)


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bmolsson
*Just passing by*

 

[Barthold De Mortaigne]

Ethiopia, definetely, from a historical point of view.

B.D.M

 

[unmerged(745)]

A basque country already exists in the game. Navarre, while not Basque in name, was 90% Basque during the timeframe of the game.


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'I am no Saint, no Spartan, no Reformer'
-Sir Robert Walpole

 

[Lubricus]

So, does Navarra view Bearn and other provinces nearby as 'their' provinces?

 

[Johan]

Dacke's own state!

/Johan