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Voideus

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Pips apparently don't roll over anymore according to this thread:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/best-daimyo-ideas.1061014/

Seems someone tested it and it appears to be true, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else..
you mention optimizing for DR which I agree is more powerful than equal value +damage.

But the sources of -shock are few especially in multiplayer scenario. Not to mention that by the time you assemble zaidi defensive planner janissary butua shock is already the less relevant damage source

Pips do roll over I believe but I haven't directly test this..

-shock can be gotten from Shia, and really,starting from 20-30% it becomes so strong that it decides battles. Since it everything else goes up, it becomes even stronger, as iirc it's the last modifier applied.
 

Viktor Vaughn

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Smolensk has a very interesting idea set. Not the greatest but certainly one of the more unique ones. Smolensk is a pain to play though. I actually really like Austria as well for the PU opportunities and easier annexing.
 

Vicodin_Addict

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1. Gujarat
2. Oman
3. Ternate

Why bother burning the world when you can steer trade into Zanzibar? Barbarians these days...
 

Bella Gerant

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England, Madyas, and Malaya are rather good in MP, I think, since they're pretty much immune to invasion due to their ideas and can be a pain in the colonial and trade fronts. You'd need naval and maritime ideas to take their fleets on, assuming they don't take any naval ideas, and continental tags don't have the luxury of taking those in MP. Or outnumber them heavily.
 

Regaccio

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Oda is insanely strong. Their traditions right off the bat are +10% Morale and +10% Infantry Combat Ability. This stacks with +10% Morale from Shinto religion and +10% Morale and +10% Infantry Combat Ability from Daimyo government. Let me rephrase that - Oda has +30% morale and +20% Infantry Combat ability from day one, without any ideas selected. This lets them stackwipe pretty much any army with ease. Take a couple of loans and go over your force limit by a few troops and every other daimyo will melt like butter. it's so ridiculous that after the first couple of initial wars, you can just declare war on everybody in Japan one after another and ignore coalitions, and have Japan unified within the lifetime of your first ruler. Keep in mind this is an OPM subject that starts with a force limit of 4.

Then you get into their ideas: Their first idea is Goods Produced, one of the best economic modifiers in the game. Their second idea is 10% CCR and -10% Province Warscore Cost. Their other ideas give Land Leader Shock, Fire, and Siege (!), as well as a straight boost to Land Fire Damage and 20% Manpower modifier/-5% tech cost for good measure. Basically every one of their ideas is geared for war, and the ones that aren't strictly combat-oriented are still helpful. They have no pointless naval ideas, no wasted slots that might as well be empty (10% stab cost mod, etc.). Just great ideas for smashing everything around you.

Of course other countries have ideas/governments that are good in other ways, but Oda really just stands out to me as amazingly good purely on the merit of its idea set. Especially since it's not even a formable like Persia, Italy, or Yuan.
 

TenshiN

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Combat-wise, i'd say any military-oriented nation in Japan. Shinto+Empire-rank Independent Daimyo alone give +20% morale and +10% Infantry Power. And only then you actually start to consider actual ideas. What i am saying is, basically, that Prussia is no longer the best military-oriented nation :D
From the japanese nations, i'd rank them as following:
1) Oda
2) Uesugi/Shimazu
3) Tokugawa
4) Otomo/Satake (because artillery power is awesome)
 

bbqftw

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-shock can be gotten from Shia, and really,starting from 20-30% it becomes so strong that it decides battles. Since it everything else goes up, it becomes even stronger, as iirc it's the last modifier applied.
butua shock reduction is ambition though, I just question how long of a timing you have to really utilize shock reduction stack before shock accounts for less than 30% of casualties in battles.

Not trivial to get the zaidi scholar either.
 

bbqftw

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By mercspam do you mean full consolidate?

I wondered how an MP player that plays careful professionalism holds up against someone that just smashes 1000% reinforce speed mercs into him. In an existential threat war, this would suggest he also either mercs+aggressively consolidates or dies..
 

Zak Preston

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By mercspam do you mean full consolidate?
yes, cheap mercenary infantry that can be consolidated when needed.

I wondered how an MP player that plays careful professionalism holds up against someone that just smashes 1000% reinforce speed mercs into him. In an existential threat war, this would suggest he also either mercs+aggressively consolidates or dies..
In MP people stack professionalism to ditch it into free manpower when needed, mostly. With new ability to break walls, slowly reinforcing MP-based armies are even in higher disadvantage.
 

TheMeInTeam

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By mercspam do you mean full consolidate?

I wondered how an MP player that plays careful professionalism holds up against someone that just smashes 1000% reinforce speed mercs into him. In an existential threat war, this would suggest he also either mercs+aggressively consolidates or dies..

Merc recruitment speed might wind up mattering more or less depending on the rules of real time in MP. I was pretty good in SC2 when still playing (diamond 1 in 1v1) but 3+ speed will still strain APM and this game's hotkeys/interface aren't designed for that on a large scale. In big wars even 2 speed no pause can press you.

I don't do much MP in this game since I don't like the dedicated time commitment, but I can't picture drill/professionalism winning over mercs, especially when drill melts in the first 1-5% of the war's time (often on forts if you're the attacker). I wonder how many MP players know about/use artillery barrage --> assault while consolidating? I'd imagine that could be pretty huge in big wars.
 

bbqftw

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You need to micro really hard to assault at full efficiency since you never want to assault with troops over the "X troops can simultaneously assault" limit.

Though I wonder if assaulting significantly under that limit might be better, if the damage is still % based when you are below limit. In such a case you go for a morale win, not win by garrison depletion.