Which countries needs a nerf and whichs needs a buf?

[Lilly Santtos]

oh boy I see it a lot. O_O
Here is what happens:
Surrender of maine happens

while war is going on burgundy declares war to provence and france joins
noticing this england lands his troops on france . after some time france loses all of his man power and loses both wars (england doesnt demand a union but demands his core holded by france and some more land)

burgundy takes 1 land from france and annexes larroine.

now france weakened . both burgundy and england also at equal ground with france at the same time both hate france

only way to save france from this is burgundian inheritance XD

I only see this happening in old versions or when AI England decides to ally Aragon and call them to war, because now England only land in Calais after France sieging everything, most of times they get stackeiped and peace out. But with Burgundy, Aragon and the English distraction France would lose but to Burgundy and likely one province to England, but France has insane manpower and little allies like Savoy(+Montferrat), Pope(+Urbino), confirmed Provence, sometimes Britanny or Scotland. France can still come for England later

 

[makaramus]

I only see this happening in old versions or when AI England decides to ally Aragon and call them to war, because now England only land in Calais after France sieging everything, most of times they get stackeiped and peace out. But with Burgundy, Aragon and the English distraction France would lose but to Burgundy and likely one province to England, but France has insane manpower and little allies like Savoy(+Montferrat), Pope(+Urbino), confirmed Provence, sometimes Britanny or Scotland. France can still come for England later

yea but he is draining out of manpower when fight with 2 war at once england and burgundy when fighting alone got almost equal devolpment with france at start of game he cant defeat 2 at once
again this doesnt happen a lot because usually burgundy go and dow england for calais instead of attacking provence. resulting with france dominating region in the end
But when happens... france will be crippled for long time if burgundian inheritance dont fire

 

[MrMess85]

Kazan and the Manchu tribes need buffs. Ming and Ottomans should be nerfed.

Ottomans need a buff early game. They should be threatening all of Europe and then go into a slow decline via a nerf perhaps tied into the Janissaries or lack of innovation taking place.

 

[Coffer]

Ottomans need a buff early game. They should be threatening all of Europe and then go into a slow decline via a nerf perhaps tied into the Janissaries or lack of innovation taking place.

They're threatening everyone early on just fine. If anything right now they progress at exactly the rate they should and don't drop off as much as they should in the lategame. The only reason they weren't punished more before that was because the European powers just couldn't stop looking beyond their own noses and stop making stupid mistakes for just one moment, and their game equivalents replicate that well enough right now.

 

[hitchens]

Brandenburg had nothing worth of note. It happened to grow up into a beast, but it wasn't a reasonable bet

The same can be said about many nations, but the fact is that it DID happen. How many nations didn't punch above their weight just because they were blessed with good generals/rulers?

 

[hitchens]

Ottomans need a buff early game. They should be threatening all of Europe and then go into a slow decline via a nerf perhaps tied into the Janissaries or lack of innovation taking place.

Haha you are still at it

 

[MrMess85]

Haha you are still at it

Still a point worth making.

Otherwise what next? I think the Aztecs need a buff as they could have conquered the world if Columbus hadn't found them at that moment of weakness.

 

[mag_zbc]

Usually the PLC doesn't need to care about Hungary because Otto and Muscovy actually historically defeated the PLC by 1490 something like that. Their only initial threat should be Muscovy that should be influenced to attack the PLC in more specific times. Ottomans are the problem and the Russian alliance with the Ottomans, imo there should be an event to trigger historical rivals between Otto and Russia. Austria never consolidate power to split the PLC, neither Prussia, but Russia get the orthodox land, Bohemia get a giant chunk and the Ottomans the rest. Bohemia should be more likely to be pu'ed by Austria, Austria should be more competent against Otto-France alliance (it is ok to exist, it happened but it break when in the game Austria is weak so France rival the Ottomans). About TO I think is fine, the AI PLC just need to manage their troops better and instead of taking Konigsberg, make a vassal and influence the TO go protestant and rebel against Poland. Things like that

So basically, game should be scripted to always yield historical results? How is it a game then?

 

[hitchens]

Still a point worth making.

Otherwise what next? I think the Aztecs need a buff as they could have conquered the world if Columbus hadn't found them at that moment of weakness.

Conquered the world with their stone age technology? Your name wont ring any bells when there is talk about the Ottomans and historical accuracy.

 

[$ilent_$trider]

Still a point worth making.

Otherwise what next? I think the Aztecs need a buff as they could have conquered the world if Columbus hadn't found them at that moment of weakness.

LOL WHAT? They knew their masonry, and astronomy but that was pretty much it. Their metallurgic knowledge was way behind the Old World metallurgy.
Even if you consider that the aztecs were not going down when the spaniards arrived and were able to expel the small expeditionary force Spain sent then, two of these would happen.
Spain would consider that they are too big a threat and should send a bigger army (which would crush them) or Spain would not bother going back and then decades later, either Spain or another European power, now more advanced, would conquer them.

 

[gia257]

LOL WHAT? They knew their masonry, and astronomy but that was pretty much it. Their metallurgic knowledge was way behind the Old World metallurgy.
Even if you consider that the aztecs were not going down when the spaniards arrived and were able to expel the small expeditionary force Spain sent then, two of these would happen.
Spain would consider that they are too big a threat and should send a bigger army (which would crush them) or Spain would not bother going back and then decades later, either Spain or another European power, now more advanced, would conquer them.

no because the aztecs would have researched kinetic charges by then

considering the spaniards had to change their metal armors for pajama armors i dont see whats the use of metallurgy, late game destroyers?

iirc cortez set the ships on fire, so if their initial forces lost spain would have assumed the dragons ate the ships and never sailed again, or were there more forces running around?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The only "buff" primitives need is to not rely on crappy AI to be able to play the game for 100 years of the 377.

I don't think the game has any egregious examples in either direction. Maybe nerf Muscovy (stronger in 1444 compared to history by a margin, the complaints about it in earlier patches were not reasonable), but even that isn't really necessary.

 

[gasior]

I would really love some horde love... Right now every horde beside gh/kazan/manchu's got the same ideas, and every horde fail misserably. I would love to see ai hordes make threat to other nations especially early game.

 

[JK2021]

I think the steppe horde government itself could use a buff because it seems like hordes always underperform every game.

 

[True_Heir_of_Rome]

They certainly do in the AI's hands. The fastest WCs are done by hordes.

 

[SamuraiLordofWii]

About the Iberian region that has nothing to do with too strong northafirca or Granada and rather with inner spanish wars vs aragon and france which Morocco allways use to attack a lonely portugal or a dying castile. The normal outcome is portugese magreb after all sometimes the castilian one. I saw once a tunesian sizilly and south italy due neaple got indipendet was downt by the pope and tunis came to grap what they could.
Its not that they overpowerd they just takeing advance of the massiv inner european wars and grap pieces when they can. Due the higher ai agressivty the europeans attack eachother more often now which lead to some one weaker its not something can fix with buffs.

In my last portugal try castile was in a war vs france in 1446 due a alliance with bretange and france down them early. Short after this war aragon attacked navarra draged castile in the next war short after a massiv lose vs france. So ofc the northafricans attack then

 

[Jules Brunet]

About the Iberian region that has nothing to do with too strong northafirca or Granada and rather with inner spanish wars vs aragon and france which Morocco allways use to attack a lonely portugal or a dying castile. The normal outcome is portugese magreb after all sometimes the castilian one. I saw once a tunesian sizilly and south italy due neaple got indipendet was downt by the pope and tunis came to grap what they could.
Its not that they overpowerd they just takeing advance of the massiv inner european wars and grap pieces when they can. Due the higher ai agressivty the europeans attack eachother more often now which lead to some one weaker its not something can fix with buffs.

In my last portugal try castile was in a war vs france in 1446 due a alliance with bretange and france down them early. Short after this war aragon attacked navarra draged castile in the next war short after a massiv lose vs france. So ofc the northafricans attack then

There is also the frequent ''40k Spanish troops in South Africa'', while Morocco invade the Iberian region...


For the Manchu, the main problem isn't that they need more Dev or better idea: Korea shouldn't be that warmonger. Every game or almost every game, Korea comes into Manchuria, blocking any minor to form Manchu soon enough. The -50% chock damage for hordes in Mountain (aka, the frontier with Korea) do not help them at all.

 

[Mr. G]

I just hope that the upcoming Ulm-DLC won't make them too strong...

 

[$ilent_$trider]

no because the aztecs would have researched kinetic charges by then

considering the spaniards had to change their metal armors for pajama armors i dont see whats the use of metallurgy, late game destroyers?

iirc cortez set the ships on fire, so if their initial forces lost spain would have assumed the dragons ate the ships and never sailed again, or were there more forces running around?

I don't know how far you are trying to be ironic, but metallurgy is important to create objects that require metallic parts (who knew, right) and among things that would require metal would be rifles and cannons and plate armor (yes, they still used armor back then), you know, stuff that gave europeans the edge against most of the non-europeans civilizations at the time.
And Cortez scuttling the ships (he didn't burn them) is a non-issue, because if he was unreachable how do we know today that he was actually successful in his attempt to conquer the Aztecs?

 

[True_Heir_of_Rome]

I think he's being silly, but on the off chance he's not it's worth mentioning that the Spanish had established a colony in Cuba 6-7 years prior, so they hardly would have believed that 'dragons ate the ships'. IIRC they were quite aware of the existence of natives in Mexico and the Yucatan Peninsula.