Around the Cappellan Confederation? When I think "Liao" or "Cappellan", Raven, Commando, Men Shen, and other small mechs are what pops into my mind...
Where’s the Raven light mech?
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We might, but the CTF-0X mounts the same EW equipment as the RVN-1X, and is even rarer; according to Experimental Technical Readout: Succession Wars, Volume 1, p. 6, only a "single shipment" were ever made, and line production was never started.And once they do get the ECM working, we may also see the Cataphract ECM variant
It also mounts a Remote Sensor Dispenser which they would have to make game mechanics for as well.
If you want a Guardian ECM Cataphract, you're going to have to wait until 3060 or so.
When you think 3028 Liao, then I think of the Raven
In 3025 I think Urbie (after Wasp, Locust and Stinger) Commando to me is more Lyran.
Correct, that was the model I was referencing. It certainly wouldn't be a 'common' occurrence by any stretch (especially in the 3025-28 zone).
That being said, it would make for a wonderful Contract Mission in the game
When you think 3028 Liao, then I think of the Raven
Commando to me is more Lyran.
Correct, that was the model I was referencing. It certainly wouldn't be a 'common' occurrence by any stretch (especially in the 3025-28 zone).
That being said, it would make for a wonderful Contract Mission in the game
Yeah, Commando didnt exactly sound Cappellan, but my point was 'small mechs', is what I envision when I think Liao.
Perhaps they are doing that, who knows. It was probably just a case of not having a design for that equipment worked out in time while they implemented everything else. (Early) Electronic Warfare is going to be an interesting element to add, since the "Electronic Warfare Equipment" is also an early (Beagle) Active Probe, which is also useful for detection of hidden unit opponents that attempt to ambush - I would suspect perhaps that is partially the hold-up since it does not seem there is any ability to Shutdown/Hide a Mech to avoid radar detection in-game yet which could be another UI element like the Eject Button seen on streams.
It would make sense if they used the ideas in early games like Mech Commander, or perhaps MW:LL, but in this case only reducing radar detection of only the unit itself meaning you might be able to move around blind spots. Another idea would simply be to remove it from radar detection of the unit altogether, only 'acquired' until a unit makes visual sensor of it.
So basically all it can do at this point in the time frame (Electronic Warfare Equipment):
ECM Functions
- Something with Radar Detection on attached Unit (since the game sort of uses Double Blind)
- Jam "Probe Functions" (Active Probes)
- Additional UI Functionality: ECCM Button (switching to this mode neutralizes another unit's ECM ability above) (Two ECM Units counter-counter a unit trying to ECCM)
- Detecting "Hidden Units" (essentially adopting "Hidden Units" rule) where vehicle, battle armor, and a Mech are declared hidden (basically shut down or low power mode or camoflaged)
- Only works if there would be LOS, otherwise can't detect hidden unit if its behind cover out of LOS
Both of those combined would be interesting editions to gameplay, especially for Skirmish. Adding Low Power/Hidden unit/Shut Down unit, perhaps in two classifications (hidden camoflaged and hidden shutdown) whatever they want to call it, would also be an interesting element specifically for Missions for them to add such as being surprised by an AI opponent that hides (that they set) until you're very close to it.
What they should not do however is have it negatively affect missile accuracy at any range period, except for removing the increased bonus of NARC and Artemis on the Cluster Hit Tables, and later also if this series introduced mountable C3 equipment.
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If the Raven 1x spends 7.5 tons to allow it to sensor lock for free (and fire missiles which it already has hard points for), or sensor lock a second time if your pilot has the ability, that alone would make the 7.5 tons of space worth it.
That would be the function of a Probe, not an ECM. I figure that the ECM would stop sensor locks and make the area that it covers affect enemy sensors/sensor locks, communications, an any advanced targeting hardware (ie targeting computers, probes, Artemis IV Fire Control Systems, Narc Missile Beacons, ect ect.). The Probe would let you know where hidden units (low powered or shut down mechs, vehicles and infantry) are located in certain areas, give your sensors a slightly larger reach of detecting active enemy units, a better sensor lock (ie. take off 3 evasion chevrons instead of 2 in my own opinion). Mind ya, this all just what I am understanding and am in no way an expert in such matters.
Here's the problem with both the EW Equipment and the later Guardian ECM: They don't do much of anything in 3025.
What they do in later eras is (Total Warfare, p.134)
In 3025, since we don't have C3 or C3i networks, we don't have Narc, we don't have Artemis IV, and we don't have Active Probes; this is what the EWE contributes in 3025:
And seeing as we can't hide units in this game, that's not worth much. Certainly not 7.5 tons.
So to me, it's no wonder at all that the decision to delay the RVN-1X until they could figure out something to do with that 7.5 tons was made; as it is it is just wasted tonnage.
What they do in later eras is (Total Warfare, p.134)
- Block Active Probes
- Removes the bonus that Artemis IV Fire Control System grants
- Removes the bonus that Narc Missile Beacons grant
- Cut C3 and C3i networks if LoS from one network member to another passes through the ECM AoE.
In 3025, since we don't have C3 or C3i networks, we don't have Narc, we don't have Artemis IV, and we don't have Active Probes; this is what the EWE contributes in 3025:
- Reveals hidden units within LoS at a range of 3 hexes. Unless they're underwater, for some reason (Total Warfare, p.129)
And seeing as we can't hide units in this game, that's not worth much. Certainly not 7.5 tons.
So to me, it's no wonder at all that the decision to delay the RVN-1X until they could figure out something to do with that 7.5 tons was made; as it is it is just wasted tonnage.
Well siad @stjobe !
Though it might be interesting if it reduced the detection range / FoW on opposing 'Mechs under its umbrella.
Though it might be interesting if it reduced the detection range / FoW on opposing 'Mechs under its umbrella.
Oh, they might do any number of interesting things with it, but they need to figure out how the later technologies (Narc, Artemis IV, C3, and electronic warfare in general) work first, so they don't have to re-implement it when those technologies arrive. And it probably wasn't worth the dev time to ponder those things for a single variant of a single (rare) 'Mech for this game.
However, in success...
They could help with Sensor Locks and similar mechanics, which is also not on the TT. Maybe allow Sensor Lock without the skill? Or maybe allow Sensor Lock to not take up your action if your pilot does have the skill. As for defense, it could work with either the evasion or the guarding mechanics, which are also not on the tabletop.
The problem with implementing it is taking into account all of the ways it affects the game to make sure that it's neither a "must have" not a "throw it away immediately" piece of equipment...
The problem with implementing it is taking into account all of the ways it affects the game to make sure that it's neither a "must have" not a "throw it away immediately" piece of equipment...
Of course not..... just a single raven would be more than enough.
You really think the holy trinity - Scorpion, Goliath and Xanthos - can be held up by mere Ravens?
Poor deluded fool.
Having it allow a 'free' Sensor Lock would be pretty cool. Or maybe allowing for Sensor Lock even after Sprinting - which would allow it to perform as an advanced Scout even better.
Absolutely, but seeing as both the EWE and the Guardian ECM are by lore completely defensive equipment, I think I'd rather have them block Sensor Lock than allow it. As in, if you're sufficiently close to a EWE-sporting RVN-1X, the enemy cannot Sensor Lock you. They can still target lock you if in-range and in LoS, but they cannot SL you behind a hill.
That also ties well into the whole counter-to-other-gear's-bonuses thing the EWE and Guardian ECM has in lore.
Absolutely. They have the warning example of the Guardian ECM in MWO (which was a completely game-breaking must-have piece of kit when it released; it made my lowly COM-2D into a ridiculously OP machine with a 4:0 Kill-Death Ratio) to look to on how not to do it. I haven't played MWO for some years now, but when I left it was still OP even after having been nerfed a couple of times.
Yes, I do see the Beagle Active Probe as defensive. As I do the Guardian ECM.
Both counter something the enemy does/has, whether it is a hidden unit in the case of BAP, or some advanced electronics in the case of G-ECM.
What non-defensive capability are you referring to?
I just see the Active Probe and the Sensor Lock as similar effects that could logically be modeled as the same (or related) things. A BAP is improved sensors, as far as we had them in TT before the quirks system was introduced, and quirks are not only optional, but barely any 'mechs have them officially.
The original fluff on the raven talked about how it directed fire and marked targets with its 7.5 ton gear. Sensor locks also "detect" units hidden from los in the new game, so gear that gives a free sensor lock, letting sensor specialists get 2 locks if they want, would be awesome. I also liked the other idea about blocking enemy sensor locks within a limited range. Since sensor locks are such a cool addition to battletech which has criminally underused probes in the past, may as well base the raven around them.
Why not just a global, non-stacking malus to hit?
Intuitively, that seems like an easy piece of code to drop in (although a complete implementation, including balancing etc, would obviously be more difficult).