Where is Wehrmachtlock?

[derjagger]

I am big fan of Paradox games.Especially HoI series.They are very good and very realistic.
But I think that there are some problems in HOI's geography policy.According to Soviet High Comand there are 2 factors in warfare that cannot be change ;geography and weather.They effect wars time,armies size and length of war.
Some points in World map have strategic importance.But also there are someplaces have special conditionces, for example wehrmachtlock( swamp between belarus and Ukranie).İf u dont know wehrmachtlock and rasputitsa (weather condition) u dont know East front in WW2 (also 1812 )
There are other examples ;Ardenns, East Turkistan etc..They are rare but important palaces for History.In map they are not strategic but they have special conditions and interesting story.

P.S. Sry for Bad English

 

[dsteve3]

In the first stages of Barbarossa, invading the Soviet Union is split between the north and south, around Primpet Marches (is that the same as the Wehrmarc... ?).

That swamp was a huge time-drain in HoI2, any units going in took forever to traverse the swamp-provinces. It is always best to go all the way around the swamp, and use infantry to finish off the enemy pushed in. Even marines are problematic, as the size of the enemy force is so large that it takes a significant number of divisions to defeat them, even after they have been cut off and surrounded.

I found that the game reflected the importance of that geographical feature very well. Is that what you meant?

 

[unmerged(131989)]

Hmmm yeah... I think the terrain bonuses/maluses work fine??

 

[derjagger]

I am aware of that I dont want say that game is bad about geography.They are very good ,nogame is match with HoI.I only want to say that some places must have special advantages and risks.
For example swamp provinces (wehrmachtlock) may become home of guerrilla units,cheap and easy producing.

 

[Bullfrog]

So you want to model partisans using their nation's harsher terrain as hideouts?

Interesting, I suppose it is easy perhaps to give certain provinces a higher partisan level than others, depending on population and maybe terrain.

If partisan attacks/hiding in tough terrain is modeled, what would be the effect within the game engine?

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

What on earth is the "Wehrmachtlock"? There is no single hit on it in Google.

 

[Kikaider]

No idea, some clarification would be nice...

Though I did think of German version of Matlock on TV first though

 

[theusje]

the pripet (whatever you call it) marshes?

 

[Panzerschiffe]

the pripet (whatever you call it) marshes?

i think thats what he means

It must be some archaic term or something.

 

[GLENN]

I take it as the Wermacht being locked in place and difficult for them to move.

 

[derjagger]

Uhm i am sry it is Wehrmachtloch..... not k it is h ... very sry
For Wehrmachtloch description (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasputitsa) I took tthe term from German High Commands maps.

 

[Bullfrog]

The muddy season is simulated on the Eastern front fairly well in HoI2. It gives some of the worst combat and move penalties of any terrain.

 

[Battlecry]

Oh I get it. Wehrmacht-hole (loch = hole in English), as in they cover the bottom. Like Ironbottom Sound off Guadalcanal (from the number of ships that sank there). But it's properly the Pripat (or Pripyat) Marshes. I can't imagine an actual OKW/OKH map saying "Wehrmachtloch", that's not very professional...

 

[unmerged(37697)]

I take it as the Wermacht being locked in place and difficult for them to move.

Speaking of locked, I bloody hate it when divisions are locked in campaigns. Sure, in battlescenarios it's understandable - you have to wait until you've been granted units from the powers that be.

But, in campaigns, when you're essentially playing the Cabinet/HoS of your chosen nation (I won't get into specifics, but that's essentially who you are, in terms of what you can do, &c.), you should not be hampered by locked divisions (usually garrisons, IIRC).

This was only present in one or two of HoI2's campaigns, and hopefully none of HoI3's.

Just thought I'd mention it whilst I was reminded...

PS: I hope we get a diary and/or Twitter update re battlescenarios!

 

[TheLand]

The muddy season is simulated on the Eastern front fairly well in HoI2. It gives some of the worst combat and move penalties of any terrain.

Indeed, offensives in the muddy season in western Russia don't work very well.

to answer the OP's question: The Pripet Marshes are represented by about 3 provinces with the "swamp" terrain, giving attack penalties, and also low infrastructure. I am not sure that this accurately represents the degree of problems the Germans had with the area.


In most HOI2 game I've played, I jsut made a big pocket around it, and then the area gave me no particular trouble...

 

[Pal]

What on earth is the "Wehrmachtlock"? There is no single hit on it in Google.

With "Loch" you get exactly two hits on google, one of them being -=This=-:

But as things now stand the dialect of the Pripet marshes in the south of Belarus (the famous Wehrmachtloch of WW2) is actually more Ukrainian than Belorussian.

 

[GarfunkeL]

derjagger, do you mean that some special locations in the world should get extra bonuses/maluses beyond other such places, because historically there was battles on/around them? Since in that case, what's so special about Pripet Marshes and Florida swamps for example? Or central Balkans and Ardennes?

If you do mean that special terrains and weathers should be modelled in the game, then they already were in Hoi1 and Hoi2 so it's quite an safe bet that they will be in Hoi3.

 

[henryjai]

Indeed, offensives in the muddy season in western Russia don't work very well.

to answer the OP's question: The Pripet Marshes are represented by about 3 provinces with the "swamp" terrain, giving attack penalties, and also low infrastructure. I am not sure that this accurately represents the degree of problems the Germans had with the area.


In most HOI2 game I've played, I jsut made a big pocket around it, and then the area gave me no particular trouble...

the German offensive in 1945 Hungary also suffered from muddy problems. Actually, the weather needs to be a little bit less predictable. (but perhaps Paradox needs sth called weather forecast)

 

[Sangeli]

Actually, the pripet marshes were not as big of problem as the germans thought during the campaign. Although the almost ignored it during the planning stages, they were very worried about during operation barbarossa because they thought about 10 divisons were still there when had passed them on either flank. However, it turned out only about the equivalent of 5 were there. Either way, the two major problems are logistics, which I'm confident will be modeled accurately, and partisans. To fix the partisan problem, or should i say the lack of a partisan problem from the german perspective, is to simply give marshy and wooded areas a higher partisan value or make garrison units less effective.

 

[Slargos]

Actually, the pripet marshes were not as big of problem as the germans thought during the campaign. Although the almost ignored it during the planning stages, they were very worried about during operation barbarossa because they thought about 10 divisons were still there when had passed them on either flank. However, it turned out only about the equivalent of 5 were there. Either way, the two major problems are logistics, which I'm confident will be modeled accurately, and partisans. To fix the partisan problem, or should i say the lack of a partisan problem from the german perspective, is to simply give marshy and wooded areas a higher partisan value or make garrison units less effective.

Since these areas will generally be less populated, the partisan value should if anything be lowered.

A better way to deal with it is as you note perhaps reducing the effectiveness of garrisons in the area and also giving partisan units increased defensive values in them.