Where is the Great Wall of China??!?

[grisamentum]

We have Great Works, and we have a map that covers the area of the Great Wall - it reached into Jiuquan duchy at the edge of the map.

So why isn't there a special Great Work that implements the Great Wall??

 

[klopkr]

Since the great wall is just a one county thing I would support it as a wonder in one county.

Here's a map of the walls and their dynasties.

Only the Han and Ming one are on the map right? And the Ming are post ck2's time frame. Was there really a great wall on the map at this time?

 

[grisamentum]

As your own map shows, Han Great Wall (well before CK2 time frame) extended to Xinjiang:

SIde note, Ming is NOT after ck2 time frame. Ming dynasty starts in 1368, well within CK2 time frame (1453 is the end year).

Maybe just "Jade Gate" great work as the wall terminus, as that was an influential entrepot to China, to represent the Great Wall.

 

[Serenity84]

The Han walls were mostly ramparts and walls of packed Earth. Watch towers were built like that too. Still impressive in its length, but earlier walls weren't like the Ming walls basically everyone thinks of today

 

[Rags17]

Maybe "Walls" (including things like Offa's Dyke) could be Fort improvements that get more value if there are "Walls" in adjacent counties. A Wall might give a Fortification bonus to each Fort in the area and all adjacent Forts so having Walls all together would be very powerful

 

[klopkr]

The Han walls were mostly ramparts and walls of packed Earth. Watch towers were built like that too. Still impressive in its length, but earlier walls weren't like the Ming walls basically everyone thinks of today

This was what I was thinking of too. And the Han dynasty is very old by ck2 times. I'm not comfortable using the great wall wonder to represent that. Something like the hadrian wall would be ok though.

SIde note, Ming is NOT after ck2 time frame. Ming dynasty starts in 1368, well within CK2 time frame (1453 is the end year).

The last playble start date is 1337 so no the Ming will never show up in game. I feel uncomfy using them as an example and there would be no start date where their walls would appear. I'm not against having an event to build a great wall in jinquan if it's owned by the western protectorate and the game rules allow it.

 

[FantasticFwoosh]

In my mind, building a new wall should be a objective for characters of Chinese dynastic descent in place of a fort (the little wood castle to the bottom left) offering bonuses on the fringes of your demense and serving the same purpose. Could be a great work too but that's a lot of GW slots potentially and walls are already a GW feature.

I can definitely see some action where ursurping the Emperor of China's rank (A alternative or result of invading, and inheriting or fighting a claim back from the newly placed dynasty) might prompt you to build these walls for a flat cost as a decision to start production if it doesn't come culturally to point to grisamentums example, as you expand your Empire in the West.

• Great Wall Segment - 0.2 prestige each, 0.5 fort level, +6 grace per month each (all gifts as emperor of China go to yourself so it would be less effective if a bit silly beside sending what your East Empire needs and asking in return to earn grace so some generation methods are needed)

 

[Eustreptospondy]

*Just a stranger to the specifics of the historical sections of the Great Wall chiming in*

If they were to actually add such a wall, with the associated boons to the holder, it could ensure that the Western Protectorate has a tough core, meaning they are somewhat guaranteed a foothold there.

This was what I was thinking of too. And the Han dynasty is very old by ck2 times. I'm not comfortable using the great wall wonder to represent that. Something like the hadrian wall would be ok though.

Now I kind of also want Hadrians Wall to be represented as a wonder...

 

[FantasticFwoosh]

Now I kind of also want Hadrians Wall to be represented as a wonder...

Never say never regarding content, but this is unlikely for all but the most earliest starts since it has hardly obstructed anybody for hundreds of years after the Romans left, it could be related to something though event chain or decision wise if the remaining scottish population from a Old Gods start are still pictish though and hostile to you.

I thought of my great wall idea as being a isolated example just for the Emperor of China but auxillary defensive/offense buildings like the fortress we have now for nomad/occupied regions and anything else besides to pad it up a little (I mean you can technically just place great works everywhere to do the job) might still find a place.

• If Hadrians wall was a fixture in place of a fortress in the side panel of the province rather than a holding, with the upkeep being sent to the demense owner they'd have to siege it first and the liege could recieve relevant options of just taking it down all-together for minus prestige (if they can't pay that, erode defensiveness and it'll fall away by itself from neglect chance per year) or pay to keep it strong in mounting costs for bonuses.

 

[grisamentum]

This was what I was thinking of too. And the Han dynasty is very old by ck2 times. I'm not comfortable using the great wall wonder to represent that. Something like the hadrian wall would be ok though.

It's still really really long, even if it's just packed earth. You would simply represent that by Stage 1 great work, with Ming-style walls at higher wonder stages.

The last playble start date is 1337 so no the Ming will never show up in game. I feel uncomfy using them as an example and there would be no start date where their walls would appear. I'm not against having an event to build a great wall in jinquan if it's owned by the western protectorate and the game rules allow it.

That's what I'm saying: regardless of who's in charge of China, it's in the right era for the ruling dynasty to be building large expansions of the Great Wall. They need a way to appear after the start date. Presumably during a Golden Age, or maybe a Stable period with higher MTTH, affected by Open/Isolationist/Expansionist as appropriate. Or I suppose the Western Protectorate could build them.

 

[klopkr]

It's still really really long, even if it's just packed earth. You would simply represent that by Stage 1 great work, with Ming-style walls at higher wonder stages.



That's what I'm saying: regardless of who's in charge of China, it's in the right era for the ruling dynasty to be building large expansions of the Great Wall. They need a way to appear after the start date. Presumably during a Golden Age, or maybe a Stable period with higher MTTH, affected by Open/Isolationist/Expansionist as appropriate. Or I suppose the Western Protectorate could build them.

Well I still think like adding the wonder is a bit much but I guess I can live with a stage 1 crappy wall wonder in jinquan to represent the ancient Han wall and then just let the AI upgrade it to stage 4 over time. Since the Ming walls start after any start dates I don't think it's necessary to guide the AI to upgrade it but I guess I support this. The only thing I maybe would like to see is some kind of limitation on upgrading the wall for Nomads... which might already be in game?