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Vharzul

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Em, i dont belive those numbers in that book you read, as those arnt really correct, preaps in peace yea, but not in War, and especialy for large nations, and with a large population it isnt any wonder that large ARmys have to be, any way I think that the numbers thier are to small hehe, those country definatly had more for thier Military might to show then those messly numbers thier..
 
Dec 22, 2003
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hmm I think the numbers wrong

the british fielded approximately 470-480 thousand in the quelching of the rebelion of the transvaal/oranje colonies which fielded about 80k commandoes ... I doubt they had their full force there and left palces which needed to be garrisoned without one.
(i did a project on south africa if u need me to cite a book I will just dont wanna look for the project)

Prussia had a huge army usually between 10-20% of their population, biggest ratio of precentage to population. They had 400k-500k during the napoleonic wars alone. And thats before this timeframe. After the wars they had a standing army of about 500k+.

Us had 28k during peace.... but lets not forget that most of those were career officers.. During wars they usually mustered in the militias + conscripts.
Can you please explain how during the civil war there was about 1.2 million casualties armywise alone... with north having about 800k lost and south 400k.

Russia had over 7 million men (understatement) at the begining of ww1 in its army.

All those numbers u mention are a complete fantasy. And do an injustice to us as players in making this game worse then it could be. Shame on you.
 

Dinsdale

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Battalier said:
the british fielded approximately 470-480 thousand in the quelching of the rebelion of the transvaal/oranje colonies which fielded about 80k commandoes ... I doubt they had their full force there and left palces which needed to be garrisoned without one.
(i did a project on south africa if u need me to cite a book I will just dont wanna look for the project)

That's very surprising to me, as the BEF deployed to France a few years later only managed around 100k.

There was no conscription during the Boer War, so assuming those figures are correct, wouldn't many, if not the majority of that number be colonial troops?
 

unmerged(10370)

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Why is it that if I build a division with its home in Berlin. Then that division goes to Africa to fight rebels, the soldiers in Berlin rebel!!! Are they in two places at once? Then the division in Africa is slaughtered by rebels... but the soldiers in Berlin take no damage.
 

unmerged(14180)

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hmm, i don't really understand that....

anyway, One thing i have noticed is the minor abilities of good troops with generals next to a horde of bad troops with no general.

for eg, One of my Austrian Korps had 70 odd thousand men, very good tech, general, and org. The Russians attacking me had 170 odd thousand men, but with bad org, lower tech, and no general.....my men were soundly beaten, even though well dug in.

I don't agree with this, especially since one of my divs had an Artillery brigade to boot, there should have been chopped russians left on the field after that encounter.

Also, put the partisans back to what it was, or at least tone them down heavily please.
 

TheButcher

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Speaking of manpower and stuff, and I might seem dumb to ask this, but after you hit the mobilize button, when and where do you get the troops? I have mobilized 3 times as france and never got anything. As it is, I spend alot on standing armies, more than I want to.
 
Jun 20, 2003
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You need to press on the box behind the mobilize button... Dont remember how much time there goes before they are ready but you can see it there...!

/Claus
 

unmerged(7364)

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Battalier said:
the british fielded approximately 470-480 thousand in the quelching of the rebelion of the transvaal/oranje colonies which fielded about 80k commandoes ... I doubt they had their full force there and left palces which needed to be garrisoned without one.
(i did a project on south africa if u need me to cite a book I will just dont wanna look for the project)

Prussia had a huge army usually between 10-20% of their population, biggest ratio of precentage to population. They had 400k-500k during the napoleonic wars alone. And thats before this timeframe. After the wars they had a standing army of about 500k+.

Us had 28k during peace.... but lets not forget that most of those were career officers.. During wars they usually mustered in the militias + conscripts.
Can you please explain how during the civil war there was about 1.2 million casualties armywise alone... with north having about 800k lost and south 400k.

Russia had over 7 million men (understatement) at the begining of ww1 in its army.

All those numbers u mention are a complete fantasy. And do an injustice to us as players in making this game worse then it could be. Shame on you.

Battalier

If you dont like the numbers I quoted that's fine, you can in turn cite your numbers and back them up with historical references. We can then discuss them in a adult and respectful manner. However, please dont tell me about your high school project, come up with immaginary numbers and then go on to insult me thereafter.
 
Aug 28, 2000
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Sapper_Astro said:
One thing i have noticed is the minor abilities of good troops with generals next to a horde of bad troops with no general.

for eg, One of my Austrian Korps had 70 odd thousand men, very good tech, general, and org. The Russians attacking me had 170 odd thousand men, but with bad org, lower tech, and no general.....my men were soundly beaten, even though well dug in.

I don't agree with this, especially since one of my divs had an Artillery brigade to boot, there should have been chopped russians left on the field after that encounter.

Interesting comment. I'm in my first game, as Texas. I did manage to defeat the Mexicans a few times with Sam Houston as my leader, but each time I took as many losses as they did (usually I was outnumbered around 2-1). Eventually they wear you down. And since Texas starts with negative manpower (!?), there is no hope of reinforcement.... Meanwhile, Mexico has tons of troops. (But now that I've read some on the forums, at least I can see how to turn that around some ... thanks.)

I also think it's bad that victories in battles do not contribute to positive peace negotiation strength. That is really what happened in the struggle for Texas independence. It wasn't because they had conquered a bunch of land from Mexico ...
 
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Johnny Canuck

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Tom said:
I also think it's bad that victories in battles do not contribute to positive peace negotiation strength. That is really what happened in the struggle for Texas independence. It wasn't because they had conquered a bunch of land from Mexico ...

Victories do count towards war exhaustion. Thus, if you win a lot of battles, your enemy's war exhaustion will increase, which will make him more likely to agree to peace.
 

DGuller

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You can fix your slow MP growth by disbanding a division or two. That probably indicates that MP growth speed depends on how many divisions (or number of men in divisions) you have in relation to total population of soldier POPs.
 

Dinsdale

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Johnny Canuck said:
Victories do count towards war exhaustion. Thus, if you win a lot of battles, your enemy's war exhaustion will increase, which will make him more likely to agree to peace.

I found that relative strength is the overriding factor in all peace negotiations. I've been able to clinch >200% in (useless and ignored treaty terms) and provinces.

Did a test against Austria, when I built 50 new divisions and deployed them in London the AI went from refusing <20% demands to givinng up >100%. Warscore (~40%) and war exhaustion (~2% for me, ~18% for them) was also unchanged.

Manpower+(small arms+canned food)+some provinces=war victory every time.
 
Aug 28, 2000
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Thank you, Johnny.

So from what is being said in the last few posts is that ... in order to beat Mexico as Texas, you have to actually build an army larger than that of Mexico? Historically, Texas beat Mexico by winning the only major battle of the war (and in the process capturing the Emperor/President of Mexico). But in the game I was playing, though I beat Mexico in about 75% of the battles, my war exhaustion as Texas was higher than that of Mexico ... not sure why?

Anyway, as I'd hoped, it's a great game. Just a few things to iron out ...
 

Dinsdale

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Tom said:
Thank you, Johnny.

So from what is being said in the last few posts is that ... in order to beat Mexico as Texas, you have to actually build an army larger than that of Mexico? Historically, Texas beat Mexico by winning the only major battle of the war (and in the process capturing the Emperor/President of Mexico). But in the game I was playing, though I beat Mexico in about 75% of the battles, my war exhaustion as Texas was higher than that of Mexico ... not sure why?

Anyway, as I'd hoped, it's a great game. Just a few things to iron out ...

The thing is, the Texan victory was an achievement which is exceptional, and if applied to all situations would give Belgium a shot of defeating France by winning a few battles.

I agree peace needs a bit of tweaking and a smart enough battle system needs to record important victories while ignoring partisan pinball, but perhaps Texas could be handled by event rather than by rule.

The task of creating a system where Texas is handled under the same rules as the Eastern Front in 1917 is an impossible task.
 

Aragos

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I've been staying out of this one for a bit, but I think it is time to jump in :)

1) Not sure where most of the numbers for historical reference are from. In the American Civil War, total Union casualties were 360,322; Confederate losses were estimated at 258,000 (multiple references for this one, but all are based on Livermore's Casualties and Losses in the Civil War). Total combatants of both sides varied in number, but were around 1.2 million at any one time. Keep in mind that the actual number of men in uniform during the war (i.e., who served for a while then were demobilized/went home at the end of their service) was closer to 4-5 million.

2) Over 400,000 EMPIRE troops served in the Boer War (most common number cited, from UK Official History is 448,435; total Empire deaths slightly over 21,000). While the British provided the leadership and many of the units, the troops came from all over the British Empire.

3) The US Army was very small throughout the 19th Century, and this was on purpose. While the active Army was only about 28-30k at most (usually in the low 20's, since it was not considered a good place to work :)), the bulk of the officer corps (well over 90%) were West Point graduates--but there were relatively few officers vice soldiers (think more of a 1/50 ratio than a 1/10). The US Navy tended to be much more modern and well equipped in contrast. Again, this is on purpose. In the US Constitution, it clearly states "The Power to make War, and to raise Armies and maintain a Navy" belong to Congress. In effect, this means that the US would have a bare minimum of a standing army (backed by, in effect, the entire manpower of the nation in wartime) but would be REQUIRED to have a standing navy. As an active duty US Army officer working in the Pentagon, I can tell you that this still applies--the Army has to go to Congress on an annual basis to get money, while the Navy does not (every two years for them). Why? Because Congress has to vote to KEEP A STANDING ARMY for another year (aka, the Annual Defense Budget). So I think the mobilization concept for Vicky is perfect for the USA at least.

4) While not a Prussia/Imperial Germany expert, the bulk of Germany's army was made of long term conscripts as well as professionals. The idea was to rotate and train as much manpower of the nation as possible for war--lets be honest, the Germans live in a bad neighborhood in the 19th century. Consequently, they should be on the far end of the spectrum for military expenditures and manpower. Check out http://www.replications.com/8KR/krstats.htm for an excellent example of where all of Germany's money was going in 1914. Nearly 50% was going to defense. Again, if a player wants to maintain a 100 division German army in Vicky, they can do so, just don't call it 'historical' based on some view of Imperial Germany in 1914-1918. No country in the era could keep a huge standing army at 100% in peacetime. Their economy would collapse, or worse, they would end up like Russia--huge army, poorly equipped, with bad morale, one disaster away from revolution (read 1905 and 1917).

Sorry about the long post. I just get tired of people quoting numbers without any kind of reference or placing the statistics into some sort of framework. :)
 
Dec 22, 2003
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well

I think I mentioned this on the first page, slightly less exact then you but anyways. Mustering men should be very easy for a nation , paying them is another matter... I as Sweden am sure wouldnt have a tough time mustering men if Russia invaded and am sure they would fight for free I would just need to feed & clothe them.
Also as time passes it should be easier to upkeep a bigger army simply because technology + infrustructure improvements would allow for it.
Armies did graduate from tens of thousands to millions during the timeframe.


I remember seeing casualties of 1.2 million in a damn text book, then they revised it to 800k now its 600. For the civil war.
 

rcp7

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Also, lowering the amount you spend on the Navy increases MP. I have no clue why. But it happens in my game.