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I was thinking, shouldn't Genoa have map knowledge of a land route to China? As well as a couple of trading posts along the way there, on the Black Sea and the area of modern day Uzbechistan (Sp?)
These were established during Marco Polo's lifetime, and he is dead about 40-50 years before EUII will be starting. Just curious.
 

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Originally posted by Monty
These were established during Marco Polo's lifetime, and he is dead about 40-50 years before EUII will be starting. Just curious.

More like a hundred to a hundred and fifty, unless he was a Methusaleh. It was Kubilai's court that he visited. As for the TPs, it depends whether those provinces will be under the control of a nation in EU2, and whether they weren't more like multi-national caravanserai. If they still existed that is-we are just past the Timurid conquests, after all, in 1419!:)
 

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Originally posted by Monty
I was thinking, shouldn't Genoa have map knowledge of a land route to China? ...

In that case some middle east nations should have it too.
Even the seaway to India and the far east (indonesia) was trading-routes by several nations as well, like Great Zimbawe and nations in Arabia.
 

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no he wasn't venetian, he was a croat from the croatian island of korcula (greek korkyra) which was under venetian control then. and when you come to korcula you can visit his museum in the house he was born in. it's a major tourist atraction!
 

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Originally posted by Rex Francorum
Guys, if you see the screenies, we can observe another "road" toward Asia. Could it be the Silk Road?


http://www.europa-universalis.com/eu2/w35_1.jpg

Yeah, it could. The cleared zone absolutely mimics the historical silk route. Cool. If only we get a more solid trading system, were trading routes are somewhat implemented, we could have something VERY interesting.
 

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Originally posted by JereRed
no he wasn't venetian, he was a croat from the croatian island of korcula (greek korkyra) which was under venetian control then. and when you come to korcula you can visit his museum in the house he was born in. it's a major tourist atraction!

He was Venetian enough for the purposes of this discussion - that was the society he & his family belonged to. Also, his book wasn't written by him, but by his cell-mate in a Genoan prison (POW) and was pretty disjointed - and almost nobody of importance believed it, he was derisively called "Marco Millions", etc... Kind of like saying that in a 20th Century sequel to EU the US government should know the route to where-ever ET is from because of "Chariots of the Gods".
 

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Marco Polo's travels happened some 100-150 years before the start of EU2, so historically he should not be included in the game.

however, I do agree that Marco Polo's home nation (Venice) should be entitled to some maps from his eastern travels. Heck, I would suggest that because of Marco Polo's legacy, Venice should get a few free settlers/colonizers at the start of the game, this is to reflect their "experience" as a nation that has a legacy of Oriental exploration.

It's only fair to venice
 

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Originally posted by celedhring


Yeah, it could. The cleared zone absolutely mimics the historical silk route. Cool. If only we get a more solid trading system, were trading routes are somewhat implemented, we could have something VERY interesting.

wow cool! I just noticed that, you have a good eye for noticing that. :)

yes, that route seems to be just south of the Sibir Corridor (the Russia-China route).

so it looks like it might be the silk road from marco polo era...
 

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Great Zimbawe

Originally posted by nobody inpartic
are you sure great zimbabwe new where india was, i thought the lived in the mt.'s and weren't into boats. most of the routes were from india and back and a little north of zimbabwe i think, ie mozanbique.


Unfortunately I don't have any references on litterature on that now, but some trading centre along the coastline is found. Almost the hole eastern-coast there have the right winds to sail back and forth to India.
Even if they lived inland they could have picked up knowledge about searoute to India.

I'll look up some references.
 
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Bernacle Bill is right, nobody who considered himself mentally sane believed in what was written in Marco Polo's book. So the information wasn't worth anything. Btw the Ottomans didn't allow European traders to travel farther to the east then the Levante.
 

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Venice already gets 1 settle a year cause of shipyard.
 

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Originally posted by Winkelried
Bernacle Bill is right, nobody who considered himself mentally sane believed in what was written in Marco Polo's book. So the information wasn't worth anything. Btw the Ottomans didn't allow European traders to travel farther to the east then the Levante.

People do no believe the culture, and new discoveries Polo mentionned in his book, but do they refuse to believe the existence of a route?
 

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Originally posted by Rex Francorum
People do no believe the culture, and new discoveries Polo mentionned in his book, but do they refuse to believe the existence of a route?

The route had been known long before Marco Polo...he wasn't even really its' rediscoverer. It came back into use because the Mongols managed to temporarily unite the Steppes region allowing trade caravans to cross.

But, as someone said, the knowledge was virtually uselesss to Europeans, with hostile Islamic states in the way, preferring to handle the trade, and make the money, themselves.
 

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Originally posted by Rex Francorum


People do no believe the culture, and new discoveries Polo mentionned in his book, but do they refuse to believe the existence of a route?

People might have believed some of the basic facts if the person to whom Polo narrated the book hadn't added all sorts of ridiculous fables and fantastic stories to Marco's stories. Thus, the book was virutally a period science-fiction novel instead of the straightforward travel account it should have been.
 

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Regardless of the accounts of Polo's life, it is well established that a trading route and trading posts exhisted and should be represented in the game. Also I realize Marco Polo is dead a century before the game starts so he wouldn't appear personally in the game. I believe it's fairly well accepted that Marco Polo and his brothers did travel to China and that Marco himself lived there for 17 years. Here is an article from Encarta:

"Venetian merchants of the day traded regularly throughout the Mediterranean region. They also maintained trading posts in port cities on the Black Sea, where they obtained silk, porcelain, and other goods that came from China over the Silk Road, an ancient trade route linking China with Rome. Little is known about Marco Polo's early life, because his own account of his travels, published later in his life, is the primary source of biographical material about him. Polo probably received a fairly typical education for children of merchants at that time, learning how to read, write, and calculate.

Marco Polo's account is also the primary source of information about the travels of his father and uncle, Niccolò and Maffeo Polo, who were jewel merchants. They left Venice in 1260 on a commercial venture to the Black Sea ports of Constantinople (now Istanbul, Turkey) and Soldaia (now Sudak, Ukraine). From Soldaia they continued farther east to trading cities on the Volga River in present-day Russia. In 1262 a war broke out behind them and prevented them from returning home, so they proceeded farther east to the great Central Asian trading city of Bukhoro (in present-day Uzbekistan). After three years there they joined a diplomatic mission going to the court of Kublai Khan, the Mongol ruler of China. The khan received them warmly and expressed a desire to learn more about Christianity. He asked the Polo brothers to return to Europe and persuade the pope to send Christian scholars who could explain the religion to him. Niccolò and Maffeo journeyed back to Europe in 1269 to satisfy the khan's request.

The pope appointed two missionaries to accompany the Polos on their return to the Mongol court. The party set out in 1271, this time with Niccolò's son Marco. Soon after their departure from Acre (now 'Akko, Israel) the missionaries became concerned about hazardous conditions along the route and abandoned the embassy. The three Polos continued the journey. Judging from Marco's account, they most likely traveled overland through Armenia and Persia (now Iran) to Hormuz at the mouth of the Persian Gulf, north through Persia to the Oxus River (now Amu Darya) in Central Asia, up the Oxus to the Pamirs, across the mountains and around the southern edge of the Takla Makan Desert to Lop Nur (in present-day Xinjiang Uygur (Uighur) Autonomous Region in western China), and across the Gobi Desert. In 1275 they reached the summer court of Kublai Khan at Shangdu (about 300 km/about 200 mi north of present-day Beijing). Marco's account records that the khan warmly welcomed the party and arranged accommodations for them.

The Polos spent the next 17 years in China. Kublai Khan took an immediate liking to Marco, who was an engaging storyteller and conversationalist, and sent him on numerous diplomatic missions throughout his empire. Marco not only carried out his diplomatic assignments but also regaled the khan with interesting stories and observations about the lands he visited. His missions took him to Sichuan Province in southern China and Yunnan Province in the southwest, as well as northern Burma (now Myanmar). Marco reported that apart from entrusting him with diplomatic missions, Kublai Khan also made him governor for three years of the large commercial city of Yangzhou. Most modern scholars doubt this claim, but it is possible that Marco held some sort of post at Yangzhou, because the Mongol rulers of China routinely appointed foreign administrators to oversee the affairs of their Chinese subjects.

According to Marco's travel account, the Polos asked several times for permission to return to Europe, but Kublai Khan appreciated the visitors so much that he would not agree to their departure. In 1292, however, the khan relented and permitted the Polos to return if they would serve as escorts for a Mongol princess traveling by sea to marry the Mongol ruler of Persia. The party departed from the southern Chinese port city of Quanzhou (in present-day Fujian Province) and sailed to Sumatra, Ceylon (now Sri Lanka), southern India, and the Persian Gulf. After seeing the princess safely to Iran, the three Polos traveled overland through Tabriz to Trebizond (now Trabzon, Turkey), where they took a ship to Constantinople and then to Venice, arriving home in 1295. "
 

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I recently saw a news article that stated that a scholar had completed a statistical analysis of the vocabulary used by Marco Polo and concluded that the furthest East he had probably traveled was Persia. This conclusion was apparently due to the fact that the Persian words outnumbered the Chinese by a substantial margin. Furthermore, Marco never mentioned anything like the Great Wall or the practice of footbinding (which was supposed to be very common then). I'll see if I can find a link to the article and post it if anyone is interested.