Where is Manchukuo?

[GeneralPetrov]

First of all let me say that I am by no means an expert on the history of Manchuria, or the conflict between Japan and China in this era. But from what I've read, while many nations didn't recognise it, Manchukuo was a seperate state to Japan having its own government administration and armed forces, albeit certainly a puppet of Japan.

From the screenshots I've seen so far however, Manchukuo does not exist in HOI4 and the area where it would exist appears to be under the direct control of Japan. Is this historically correct? What is the reasoning behind it?

Again, I could be completely wrong since I am by no means an expert, but if India and Vichy France are independent puppets, surely Manchukuo should be too?

 

[Warspite_TW]

Maybe it's for helping the Japan AI with the land war in China...

 

[GeneralPetrov]

Maybe it's for helping the Japan AI with the land war in China...

If it is, it's kind of a lazy way of doing it isn't it?

 

[Bulga]

It's probably the same reason why northern France is occupied by Germany if they win in France. I'd assume it would become more autonomous if Japan wins against China.

 

[Admiral Piett]

It doesn't really have any historical rationale behind it as Manchukuo was treated as a separate state, even if they were very much a puppet of Japan. It makes even less sense when the "British Raj" is in game. I suspect it is some kind of balancing thing. I know HoI III had problems when Japan didn't "technically" border China, so the AI couldn't properly calculate threat. As a result, the Japan AI would pull all its troops out of Manchuria and Manchukuo would get rolled by the KMT.

 

[Hans_Schnitzel]

It's probably the same reason why northern France is occupied by Germany if they win in France.

Or maybe it is like that because that was actually the zone the Germans occupied.

http://blogs.usyd.edu.au/theoryandpractice/Vichy_France_Map.jpg

 

[Bulga]

Or maybe it is like that because that was actually the zone the Germans occupied.

http://blogs.usyd.edu.au/theoryandpractice/Vichy_France_Map.jpg

Which is precisely my point? Hitler only took Alsace-Lorraine. He occupied northern France because the government in Vichy couldn't handle it themselves. It was only occupied, he would have given it to his puppet government if he had won the war against the United Kingdom.

 

[Hans_Schnitzel]

Which is precisely my point? Hitler only took Alsace-Lorraine. He occupied northern France because the government in Vichy couldn't handle it themselves. It was only occupied, he would have given it to his puppet government if he had won the war against the United Kingdom.

Ohh, I thought you meant to say that Manchuro is given to Japan, so that the AI can handle it, so the German Reich gets the north half of France, because otherwise the AI can't handle it.

 

[Bulga]

Ohh, I thought you meant to say that Manchuro is given to Japan, so that the AI can handle it, so the German Reich gets the north half of France, because otherwise the AI can't handle it.

I'm glad it's cleared up. Sorry, English isn't my strong language, so my wording is terrible half the time.

 

[Hans_Schnitzel]

I'm glad it's cleared up. Sorry, English isn't my strong language, so my wording is terrible half the time.

Oh, no. The wording is fine. Just the general sentiment seems to be "Because AI can't handle it" so I missunderstood you based on a dumb assumption on my part, sorry.

 

[Bulga]

Oh, no. The wording is fine. Just the general sentiment seems to be "Because AI can't handle it" so I missunderstood you based on a dumb assumption on my part, sorry.

Your assumption was fine, no need to apologize. I would be confused if the previous posts were about the A.I., too.

 

[SpermCube]

It should be in as a puppet state imo, Manchukuo is the best historical example of a puppet state.

 

[Adrian Gaming]

I think for now Manchukuo is not there, but perhaps it will be incorporated later or it will be up to the player to release Manchukuo.

Really too early to be asking about Manchukuo though, I am sure the devs have plans.

 

[Vonboe]

I think for now Manchukuo is not there, but perhaps it will be incorporated later or it will be up to the player to release Manchukuo.

Really too early to be asking about Manchukuo though, I am sure the devs have plans.

That's my best guess as well. We might see some sort of puppet stat mechanic focused DLC later on, so the team can focus on more important aspects of the game for the release.

 

[potski]

The best mods of HOI3 had Manchuria occupied by JAP. The gameplay was much better. Not only could the AI deal with it better, but it was very frustrating as a player that you couldn't improve any provinces in MAN, build an air base, increase infra etc. And you have absolutely no control over the trade and production of your puppet, nevermind their army, is poor.

This is my concern over the Raj. To solve a problem that the MP/IC of India is used to produce new units in Great Britain, which then have to be shipped back to India, a UK player in effect loses all control over India.

I noticed that the new expansion of EU4 has some orders you can give to your vassals. Something like this would be useful. And the ability to construct province improvements in a puppet should be a minimum requirement. That can't be hard to code?

 

[AlexNightingale]

Manchuko was basically a colony of Japan. Since they couldn't immediately annex those terrotories, due to international pressure after they took it from China.

 

[NurAbSal]

Potski is right about need of ability to build province/state improvements on territory of your puppets... It would fix so many problems/reasons to rage...

 

[GeneralPetrov]

But the same problems would also apply to the British Raj. Really in HOI4 you should have much greater control over puppets. It doesn't really feel right to get rid of an entire state just because of game limitations.

 

[NurAbSal]

But the same problems would also apply to the British Raj. Really in HOI4 you should have much greater control over puppets. It doesn't really feel right to get rid of an entire state just because of game limitations.

True, i know, that this game is like 12 years long and some mechanics should be left out, but things like menaging your puppets, improving their infrastructure, industrialization etc, should definatelly be in. Look at Japan-Manchuria or UK-India as examples... I think India is still operating some of locomotives UK brought to them during their rule... I think some of those might be even steam ones...

 

[Caesar15]

The entirety of China is kind of a mess right now, hopefully some changes roll through before release.