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Where do you want to go, Paradox?
- Thread starter WeissRaben
- Start date
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Before expansion: The only real way to play the game was to conquer people. No development, buildings pretty much useless.
After expansion with no DLC: The only real way to play the game is to conquer people.
OMG PARADOX YOU RUINED THE GAME!
Why do people look at what the expansion buyers get and feel they deserve it for free? This is not a core gameplay feature, this is something that has literally never existed before. The development feature is also so wildly inefficient that you're basically weakening yourself by using it which just makes all these arguments hilarious.
After expansion with no DLC: The only real way to play the game is to conquer people.
OMG PARADOX YOU RUINED THE GAME!
Why do people look at what the expansion buyers get and feel they deserve it for free? This is not a core gameplay feature, this is something that has literally never existed before. The development feature is also so wildly inefficient that you're basically weakening yourself by using it which just makes all these arguments hilarious.
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In theory you fill all building slots and have to develop.
In practice you can still stomp AI and use all points for other stuff. At least in my first game as Austria I only bothered developing Tirol so far,for obvious reasons.
In practice you can still stomp AI and use all points for other stuff. At least in my first game as Austria I only bothered developing Tirol so far,for obvious reasons.
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Why do people wave and gargle their mouth without reading? I am. Saying. The polar. Opposite. I'm just stating that, as these developments (pun not intended) go pretty much against what they had announced the DLC policy would have been, they should just rescind the policy and go back to expansions.
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I Think the problem people are having is that with the latest patch so many things in the game is calculated by a DLC locked feature. This basically means the game without the Common Sense DLC can't be played as intended.
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It is not about free stuff, it is about breaking the base game with a patch.
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I'm not sure it is a large minority of players, just a very vocal one.
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To answer your question, i've one of those who are complaining since the first post appeared that signaled this subject. I've already bought the DLC, but i'm still complaining about this. I don't want anything for free except bugfixes (which you can't have if you rollback to 1.11.4), and not losing what i already have. 1.12 doesn't comply with that. So, although i bought the DLC, i'm totally against this business practice.
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A quick summary from a post I made in a different thread:
Paradox has changed a base mechanic (buildings) for everybody. People with the DLC will on average in a normal game build around 3-4 buildings more. Complaints are:
A: They changed a mechanic, they should not be allow to do this. - This is mostly the DLC/Expansion pack discussion that has been done to death before. This has nothing to do with a DLC/non-DLC split. In addition, it is silly to support the expansion pack system but be angry when people that reverting to a previous patch will do this very thing.
B: I don't like the new building mechanic. - Fair enough, but Paradox has good reasons for the change and most people do enjoy the new system. It is now more important to focus your provinces. There are still many balance issues, but that has been the case after every single Patch and DLC.
C: The DLC-buyers have an advantage/The game is ruined without the DLC. - The advantage in buying the DLC is relatively minor, unless you specifically only conquer provinces with #9 development. Many people who find the game ruined are also mostly angry at the change in how buildings work.
D: America/Asia/whatever has been hit much harder than other regions. This is working as intended and is the same whether you own the DLC or not. It is completely uneconomical to upgrade large colonial nations. Other than that, it is a matter of balance and I agree that there should be very few if any provinces where you can't construct at least one building.
Furthermore, looking at the steam reviews, most are either describing AI bugs (most of which have been fixed in the hotfix) or about the increase in coring costs.
My own gripes with the development system are currently that there's have to be some balances changes, that they should tie terrain improvement to the development level (draining marshes etc.) and that the unique buildings are an actual loss. The balance will presumably be better in a patch or two as always and they've already said that the unique building bonuses will be back in in some form.
Paradox has changed a base mechanic (buildings) for everybody. People with the DLC will on average in a normal game build around 3-4 buildings more. Complaints are:
A: They changed a mechanic, they should not be allow to do this. - This is mostly the DLC/Expansion pack discussion that has been done to death before. This has nothing to do with a DLC/non-DLC split. In addition, it is silly to support the expansion pack system but be angry when people that reverting to a previous patch will do this very thing.
B: I don't like the new building mechanic. - Fair enough, but Paradox has good reasons for the change and most people do enjoy the new system. It is now more important to focus your provinces. There are still many balance issues, but that has been the case after every single Patch and DLC.
C: The DLC-buyers have an advantage/The game is ruined without the DLC. - The advantage in buying the DLC is relatively minor, unless you specifically only conquer provinces with #9 development. Many people who find the game ruined are also mostly angry at the change in how buildings work.
D: America/Asia/whatever has been hit much harder than other regions. This is working as intended and is the same whether you own the DLC or not. It is completely uneconomical to upgrade large colonial nations. Other than that, it is a matter of balance and I agree that there should be very few if any provinces where you can't construct at least one building.
Furthermore, looking at the steam reviews, most are either describing AI bugs (most of which have been fixed in the hotfix) or about the increase in coring costs.
My own gripes with the development system are currently that there's have to be some balances changes, that they should tie terrain improvement to the development level (draining marshes etc.) and that the unique buildings are an actual loss. The balance will presumably be better in a patch or two as always and they've already said that the unique building bonuses will be back in in some form.
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You had 4 tries to get what the complain is, and missed them all. The complain is that they removed a core feature, and replaced it with another feature that is complete only for those who have the DLC.
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Crisis are a big and nice mechanic in Vicky 2 by now, so if you don´t have the DLC and don´t have crisis the game is broken from lack of that feature? No. You still can play without Heart of darkness
No DLC does NOT mean broken game. Lamer maybe but not broken.
Everything I said before still stands. Eventually old versions are left behind and you have to pay to USE new stuff.That is regardless if it´s a Blizzard, Relic or Pdox game.
And that is not wrong. It´s hard work. And they deserve to be paid.
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If it were just the pay-wall about the development system, I would tend to believe it was a management dictate towards reaching some figure goals. But as there are many other erratic decisions in both the patch and the DLC, it remains a mystery for me where PDX wants to go.
In fact before 1.12, I thought PDX vision was to create a massive MP experience, but the pay-wall in CS clearly shows the opposite.
The only possible explanation is that PDX currently has no vision of where to go.
In fact before 1.12, I thought PDX vision was to create a massive MP experience, but the pay-wall in CS clearly shows the opposite.
The only possible explanation is that PDX currently has no vision of where to go.
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But you are not expected to have the same base game as the ones who have HoD, while - by explicit policy stated by Paradox - you are with EU4. This needs to be changed, one sense or the other.
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What is it that people are not getting ?
Buildings were available to anyone and if you had the resources, you could upgrade your provinces nicely. Especially being able to give money to vassals who would upgrade the provinces for you, before you diplo-annex them was a nice feature which I used a lot whenever I had the money to do so.
OK, we still have buildings available but depending on where you play in the world, there may only be 1 slot available now.
Great, so now I can spend my time strategizing on where to place what building ? Wonderful. Yay, I went 'tall' in my province, look at my one superb level 1 fort over here. And yes, who needs manpower or trade power or naval FL, etc, etc. ( I am not mentioning the embassy as this was removed entirely so that cannot be part of this complaint - although I wished they would bring it back in the game).
This DLC has broken the non-DLC update to 1.12x in that it removed a core feature from the game, the ability to upgrade your province(s) which now is only available to DLC buyers.
Downgrading to 1.11.4 is NOT the solution as it would again remove the bugfixes that were made in 1.12.
Changing whatever settings files is not an option as it removes ironman mode.
Are coring costs and diplo annex cost higher ? Yes. I personally do not like that but that is the same for everyone so that is not breaking the game. Same for parliament options. I could live without it easily, it wasn't available before and the game would run fine without it. Same for the changes to Theocracies / Devotion, Protestant mechanics, government rank features, free cities, pausing westernization (and I am probably missing some other new features here)... all items one can do without as these are NEW and do NOT change the base game.
edit: and P.S. Not everyone likes to play in Europe all the time so yes, some players would have only one building slot in their crappy provinces...
Buildings were available to anyone and if you had the resources, you could upgrade your provinces nicely. Especially being able to give money to vassals who would upgrade the provinces for you, before you diplo-annex them was a nice feature which I used a lot whenever I had the money to do so.
OK, we still have buildings available but depending on where you play in the world, there may only be 1 slot available now.
Great, so now I can spend my time strategizing on where to place what building ? Wonderful. Yay, I went 'tall' in my province, look at my one superb level 1 fort over here. And yes, who needs manpower or trade power or naval FL, etc, etc. ( I am not mentioning the embassy as this was removed entirely so that cannot be part of this complaint - although I wished they would bring it back in the game).
This DLC has broken the non-DLC update to 1.12x in that it removed a core feature from the game, the ability to upgrade your province(s) which now is only available to DLC buyers.
Downgrading to 1.11.4 is NOT the solution as it would again remove the bugfixes that were made in 1.12.
Changing whatever settings files is not an option as it removes ironman mode.
Are coring costs and diplo annex cost higher ? Yes. I personally do not like that but that is the same for everyone so that is not breaking the game. Same for parliament options. I could live without it easily, it wasn't available before and the game would run fine without it. Same for the changes to Theocracies / Devotion, Protestant mechanics, government rank features, free cities, pausing westernization (and I am probably missing some other new features here)... all items one can do without as these are NEW and do NOT change the base game.
edit: and P.S. Not everyone likes to play in Europe all the time so yes, some players would have only one building slot in their crappy provinces...
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My point A is that they replaced a core feature with a different version of that core feature. And my point C is arguing that the feature is complete even without the DLC as in most cases it will only have a very limited effect.
Most cases, means Pdx is hurting the game experience has a whole. And it's not a limited effect.
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The people who are complaining see things a little differently.
They see a game that took away a core system that did a number of things, and replacing it with two systems that roughly cover those same areas. And one of those two systems is DLC only.
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It has been weeks, and not one dev has said even one word about this problem. You rebalanced the game around the DLC: it's contrary to your stated policy. Why?
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Paradox's policy that you can play the game without DLCs is a failure, imo.
People should have to buy the last DLC to continue playing or else get stuck on an older version (which is fine).
All this maintenance for any combination of DLC you have or have not is just too much.
People should have to buy the last DLC to continue playing or else get stuck on an older version (which is fine).
All this maintenance for any combination of DLC you have or have not is just too much.
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