Where do you want to go, Paradox?

[Imgran]

There is no aside from that, that's the whole damn problem right there, that issue is not asideable.

 

[ojaiike]

It is more analogous to state that you have bought a car from a dealership with a nice 2.0 litre V8. The dealership provides free check-ups and free stuff (go-faster stripes etc) then one day your dealership gives you some pink fluffy dice to hang from your rearview mirror whilst taking your V8 engine out and replacing it with a 1.6 litre injection.

I could develop my provinces quite happily before I got the fluffy dice, but now I cannot. Unless I pay to have my car upgraded to a 2.0 V8 (which I already had). You also constantly state I can go back to before I got the fluffy dice and still have the V8, this is true, but I won't have my car serviced. the 1.12 patch also contains (which you consistently fail to mention) bugfixes.

I like bugfixes. They fix bugs.

Aye.

You can say no to the dealer though and use 1.11

 

[Apollyonna]

Sorry, I could not resist this

A more fitting analogy would be, "The car dealership sells cars, but also gives away free cars, they're just an older model without all of the new fancy doodads." or "The house contractor added a bunch of free additions to my house, but said he could add more if I paid him" ?

Why are we complaining about free stuff? Would you rather there be no patch at all unless you buy the DLC?

It's more like: The house contractor re-did our kitchen, lots of great stuff in it. Oh but, ... the new oven is wonderful, will heat up to 300°... but now you will only be able to use 50°C unless you pay for the upgrade. And the fridge doesn't cool anymore, want it to cool your stuff again ? Pay up. The toaster is now a shiny object unless you pay up and it will work again.

And maybe the door is locked so if you want the key, pay up.

 

[Apollyonna]

Have any of the pro CS players for fun turned off CS and see what the 'fuss' is actually all about ?

Maybe if you did you could understand where some people are coming from.

 

[Imgran]

REVERTING IS BUGGED PEOPLE. PEOPLE HAVE BEEN REPORTING ISSUES WITH REVERTED VERSIONS OF THE GAME

Maybe if I say it in all caps you guys will notice this time? Ahh who am I kidding

 

[NightKev]

Yes, it's currently broken, presumably they will fix it at some point, don't you think?

 

[Imgran]

Isn't that what people are saying about CS?

Maybe they kept their promise after all, if brokenness is a new core game feature

 

[RobRoy3]

Or you could, FOR FREE, go back to the old "kitchen". So no, that doesn't cut it at all, stop with the retarded analogies people.

Agree on the extremely limited utility of argument by analogy, in this context.

But disagree with the implication that going back to the old "kitchen" is a viable or acceptable solution. Unless we're prepared to acknowledge that Paradox really has changed the DLC model from what it used to be (which I think it has, and I don't really have a huge problem with a more traditional "expansion" approach.)

 

[Imgran]

It still exists as 1.11.4, didn't YOU read?
If you had read what I wrote you would notice I don't give a damn because I was only talking about your retarded analogy and how it was flawed as hell.

if they offered an extended service plan as part of the package to entice me to buy it, and I was using it quite happily when they asked me to bring the car in for routine maintenance, and as I was driving home something went wrong after the grease monkeys had been under the hood and it turned out that fixing that new problem WOULD cost me since it's not under the extended service plan, and I suspected but could not prove the new problems were the fault of the guys at the dealership, you could safely describe me as annoyed, even if the repairs didn't hit my wallet very hard..

 

[NaveHK]

i really liked the idea of provinces development and i don't find problem with choosing my buildings carefully now i think it add depth but i really hate how its only locked for the DLC, i know people will say if they make it free then whats the DLC is all about but that doesn't mean its ok to remove features from base game.

 

[NightKev]

Isn't that what people are saying about CS?

That there are bugs? There are always bugs in every program/game/etc, so I'm not sure what you mean by this.

 

[Imgran]

Agree on the extremely limited utility of argument by analogy, in this context.

But disagree with the implication that going back to the old "kitchen" is a viable or acceptable solution. Unless we're prepared to acknowledge that Paradox really has changed the DLC model from what it used to be (which I think it has, and I don't really have a huge problem with a more traditional "expansion" approach.)

If they did that and said they were doing it I wouldn't have an issue. It's pretending that that's not what's going on that's irritating me.

 

[Imgran]

That there are bugs? There are always bugs in every program/game/etc, so I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Yes you are, but you've decided to take this personally so you're going to fight with every sophistry in the book. Gonna stop feeding you now until you're ready to start being honest..

 

[Ayeshteni]

You can say no to the dealer though and use 1.11

Why would I not want bugs fixed? For that matter why would you not want the bugs fixed and CtD's eliminated? Seems a little odd.

Aye.

 

[Apollyonna]

And on another note, going back to 1.11 also means that the bug fixes PDX provided in 1.12 are no longer available

For me some of the more important ones are
- Improve relations with a March is now capped at +200 similar to a regular vassal.
- Can now reassign leaders in hostile territory that you control.
- Provinces can no longer get duplicate Religious Zeal.

 

[WeissRaben]

The main issue is Paradox has lied about their DLC policy in EU4. In CK2 it has worked well for the most part as you can play Catholic characters from the original start date as you could at release with Reutines being the only exception. To play Muslims, in India, Pagans and extended timeline you needed to pay and that is fair. In EU4 they keep changing the core game and if you don't pay more and more $ your base game is getting ruined. This is NOT how PDX describes their DLC policy. They need to state honestly that their policy has changed. To pretend otherwise that DLC are optional enhancements to the game is fraud and dishonest.

If I know that I will need to pay more and more than that will effect my decision to buy the game in the first place as the advertised price is 2X or 3X what they state on release. PDX has stated the opposite in their policy statement on DLC and this is the issue and why people feel mislead and used as cashcows by PDX.

Guys, this is the point I was making. I'm not sure if the OP has been seen as scathing satire, but I meant it literally. Paradox needs to clarify its position on the issue, because at the moment patch 1.12 clearly ruins some starts (how many depends on who you ask, but it surely ruins North America and damages a bit everywhere) and as such is not really an alternative without the DLC. They want to sell the expansion Common Sense, 20 bucks, with patch 1.12 included? Fine by me. But they had stated that the base game would not be ruined in favour of DLC, and they need either to retract this statement, or to explain why they decided to do so.

Addendum. Of course, they do not actually need to tell anything. But they are one of the companies best known for their exceptional PR, especially in these forums. Denying a reply is in their right, but also damaging for this undoubtedly positive fame.

 

[Captain Frye]

I like the DLC. I think it's best DLC ever. I just think that DLC count is going waaay up. They should rather work on EU 5 at this point.

 

[derly2004]

I don't think any reply from the developers will solve anything at this point. Those outraged at this patch will simply jump on any remarks made by the developers and presumably argue their point of view. Those not bothered will just shrug.

No, I don't think there's going to be any going back now. Which makes me sad to see so much anger around the fourms lately.

 

[Imgran]

I don't think any reply from the developers will solve anything at this point. Those outraged at this patch will simply jump on any remarks made by the developers and presumably argue their point of view. Those not bothered will just shrug.

No, I don't think there's going to be any going back now. Which makes me sad to see so much anger around the fourms lately.

Sadly you're probably right. I just think that this situation is a colossal screwup and I wish I knew that PDox understood that there is at least a large minority of players felt that way.

 

[Morwys]

Vacation, I would think. Making a major DLC and then getting whined at incessantly has to be exhausting.

+1. All these whining is ruining the forums.

EDIT: 5 whiners disagree with me.