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spinoza013

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Again you have completely missed the point. The poster stated the reason he bought Res Publica was precisely (and virtually only because) it unlocked National Focus. CS provides the feature also, so he feels out of pocket buying Res Publica.

Aye.
Res Publica came out a year ago. I guess he could have waited a year to get National Focus and saved himself $8. Sounds legit.

While missing the point if no one had bought Res Publica or Eldorado there'd be no Common Sense at all. Oh wait I forgot paying $40 on a game two years ago entitles you to free patches and features for ever.
 
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Let's go back to the car analogy. If you buy a car you expect free mechanic service 2 years later?

If it was in the contract, yes. Current situation is a free mechanic service, provided you pay for new attachments to your car. So the free mechanic service isn't really all that "free" anymore.
 
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This is completely wrong, though. There are a lot of plains and farmlands in Europe, which have many more than just 1 or 2 building slots. Furthermore, you can play the game without any problems without the DLC. It is not at all a good analogy to compare it to a car with no wheels, which can't take you anywhere-- such an analogy would imply the game does not load or play at all without the DLC, which isn't the case. Suggesting this analogy is pure hyperbole.

It is more analogous to state that you have bought a car from a dealership with a nice 2.0 litre V8. The dealership provides free check-ups and free stuff (go-faster stripes etc) then one day your dealership gives you some pink fluffy dice to hang from your rearview mirror whilst taking your V8 engine out and replacing it with a 1.6 litre injection.

I could develop my provinces quite happily before I got the fluffy dice, but now I cannot. Unless I pay to have my car upgraded to a 2.0 V8 (which I already had). You also constantly state I can go back to before I got the fluffy dice and still have the V8, this is true, but I won't have my car serviced. the 1.12 patch also contains (which you consistently fail to mention) bugfixes.

I like bugfixes. They fix bugs.

Aye.
 
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spinoza013

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If it was in the contract, yes. Current situation is a free mechanic service, provided you pay for new attachments to your car. So the free mechanic service isn't really all that "free" anymore.

What contract did you sign when you bought EUIV entitling you to free patches and improvements for 2 years?
 
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I don't know why but after I play 2 games (playing the second game as my own nation after Russia) I don't think I will ever need Common sense (but damn that sexy grab a land from protectorate. :'( )
The limited slot just attracts me a lot. It turns EU4 into a deeper decision game ever like XCOM. You will have to choose really wisely, and I kinda like it. I think Paradox trying to make the game more fun and harder but I really want to tell Paradox this: Please make a balance in singleplayer and multiplayer mode separately. Because right now I hate that decision. This is like a former game I ever play, Guild wars 2. That game's balance is only base on PvP and apply it on PvE mode even most people are not even PvP! I think based on the things I read here like espionage that is probably made for "multiplayer" balance is so bad. Why don't they make a balance for single player and multiplayer instead of all at once? I would suggest for something minor edit for SP like you can get higher attack power (discipline?) from this idea but reduce slightly for multiplayer, add special spy action that exclusively for SP or even add some special rules like 50 percent idea balance for multiplayer. (The decision for not be able to choose the same idea catalog more than 50 percent is good by the way.) Meh, I hope Wiz read this complaint.

And you know what you will feel more lucky when you see some hidden money hunger publishers like Ktwo, Artie Electronica-chan (you will know these game companies lol) etc. They don't even take care customers and they will put most things into expansion,without take care about base games. And come to think about it, Boxgear does not even take care of any important and minor bugs and they make a lot of tiny dlcs that suppose to be in base game. Xisarif did well but they require "2" heavy expansions (they did make something like fall patch but...well I have to admit that Paradox make patch faster). And Noitilov is the worst. Too tiny dlcs but too costly to be called expansion. That's what I thought by the way.

Anyway I hope anyone will not angry with my comment. As I am soooooooo new to PDXS games and still total newbie in EU4 (aka not a fanboy :p )

PS I want to share (my boring with some issues like for multiplayer balance and some thought about this topic) my opinion because I think this is one of the biggest riot(?) I ever see in game webboard.
 
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Shadowstrike

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Paradox really has three options:

1) Include all features in new DLC
2) Include some features in DLC and some in free patch
3) Give away all free features.

3 isn't feasible, because they have to keep their company running. 1 is the standard model in the industry. It seems silly to complain about them going with an in-between option, so as to still make money, but also give people who didn't buy the expansion something to play. Now 1.12 is arguably broken without the DLC, but 1.11 is still perfectly playable.

Frankly, I don't see how the "give away only optional features" business model is going to work out in the long run. There simply aren't that many optional add-ons that don't affect the core gameplay so you can do without them. The only real DLC-only "feature" that I really use is the auto-building of armies/navies from AoW. I applaud Paradox for their efforts to ensure that you don't need to buy the latest DLC to keep playing, but at some point (like right now) it's really breaking down.
 
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spinoza013

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Patch does now equal DLC? If they changed things to make it so, then let them be honest about it.

I can't argue that this new patch hasn't changed the base game and without the DLC is possibly not as satisfactory experience as 1.11.
This is unfortunate but as others have pointed out you can roll back yo 1.11.

This should have been marketed as essential DLC and they should have separated completely from 1.0 iterations and moved to 2.0.

But expecting free new features after such a long time is stretching credibility.
 
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Res Publica came out a year ago. I guess he could have waited a year to get National Focus and saved himself $8. Sounds legit.

While missing the point if no one had bought Res Publica or Eldorado there'd be no Common Sense at all. Oh wait I forgot paying $40 on a game two years ago entitles you to free patches and features for ever.

It's not entitlement; It's Paradox stating "We will provide free patches with every DLC release".

Aye.
 
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Phalanx300

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I can't argue that this new patch hasn't changed the base game and without the DLC is possibly not as satisfactory experience as 1.11.
This is unfortunate but as others have pointed out you can roll back yo 1.11.

This should have been marketed as essential DLC and they should have separated completely from 1.0 iterations and moved to 2.0.

But expecting free new features after such a long time is stretching credibility.

So I have to pay to get my bugs fixed among other things? This isn't in line with their old policy, again if they are changing things I'd like to hear something from them regarding the matter. At the moment I think we can both agree that they have definately read one of these discussions. Frankly I'm finding it a bit disrespectful how they have not commented on the matter yet.
 
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About "rant", first no one ever used the point you said (quite handy to say that because THAT would be just stupid).

Not in this thread, however there are other threads claiming that the AI is developing its provinces even if the DLC is not active. There are also responses that amount to "you've reneged on our 'contract' to give me a 'working' game", and imply fraud.
 

migalhone

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Following all of the dev diaries since they announced this DLC, and with the 1st being about the development system, i immediately got the impression that it was one of the DLC's main features. As such, they won't give this for free, and i'm fine with that. Being restricted in terms of what buildings you have sucks, but the game so far seems very playable without the DLC.

What irks me and dissapoints me are situations where Paradox introduces subtle but meaningful changes such as the manpower changes. Before 1.12, upgrading military tech gave a % bonus of manpower. In 1.12? It doesn't. Sure, you have buildings that boost manpower, whether you have or don't have the DLC. The thing is... It's a % boost. It's not a flat boost.

"You can get more flat manpower by conquering provinces!" Yes indeed. That applies both before and after the patch. However, before the patch, you had buildings that gave you flat manpower bonuses. Now you don't, period.

Maybe their reasoning was "Well, we feel flat manpower bonuses don't fit in with our design goals, so we're removing them." Ok then, you want wars to be more costly and in general to make player choices more meaningful, i guess. Fine, let's do it.

Come the development system, available to those who bought the DLC. This new system enables the player, between other things, to increase base manpower by a flat amount! So flat manpower buildings were something you wanted to get rid of, only to include them in the paid features? How can i see this and not be upset with the developers? And it's definitely not just me, the changes related to manpower have been felt by many of the users.

No matter how much good faith i generally have in Paradox, you can't just notice this and not be dissapointed and very wary of the game's future!

I hope Paradox delves into this and share what they're thinking about this and what direction they intend to steer the game into.

You buy these Paradox games knowing that there will be a lot of DLC's. Buy the DLC. It's like the price of 3 or 4 cups of coffee and will last you a literal life time.

Not necessarily like that, when i bought EU4 i had no idea that there would be a lot of DLC's (It's my first PI game). Not that i can complain about it, since their policy regarding DLC seemed fine until now. Of course, i could have researched a bit more, but nothing of what i had read about EU4 and Paradox prepared me for the frequent design changes, which strongly resembled a heavy swinging pendulum between December 2013 and somewhere around Art of War release, which was a stable release, in contrast with others.

Paradox has improved quite a bit in their patch releases, which i appreciate, a lot. They deserve kudos, and they deserve, for the most part, the money they get with EU4 and it's DLC.

What makes me cautious and skeptical about buying EU4 DLC's is that i don't want to give them the signals that i'm actually OK with them making subtle and meaningful changes such as the manpower-related that i've rambled about earlier.
 
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Yes they have, but one of their other promises is that the game will be balanced without DLC. Right now it's pretty questionable whether that's the case.

That's a fair point. It's an ambitious goal.
 
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spinoza013

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They are now in the position where they have to write in balance to a game essentially in two distinct iterations those with 1.12 DLC and those with just the 1.12 patch. The mechanics included in the DLC affect the core mechanics in a way that no paid features have before.

Essentially we have reached schism. This is the post 1.11 game and unless they get everyone on board 1.12 full DLC it'll be problematic going forward without leaving those who don't own Common Sense behind.

Obviously it's nowhere near EUV but I think it's definitely 2.0. and Paradox need to own up that this is a new game and that EUIV 1.0 is the old game.

We've had the protestants now comes the reformation.
 
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I was always planning to buy the DLC (and I did), but I've been a big supporter of moving the development to the free patch. I think it's too entwined with the balance of the game, much more than any other DLC feature in the past.

But what's done is done, and now they can't really change their mind on it because customers who bought the DLC will whine if they now make the feature free.
 
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