Where do you want to go, Paradox?
- Thread starter WeissRaben
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your questions weren't germane to my statement, however;
By implication of continued development without selling DLCs, yes
By implication any post that wants continued development without selling DLCs
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What's being said, is that Pdx shouldn't charge for a new feature that replaces an old free feature. Not stop developing DLC's.
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LOL!!!! This has nothing to do with Capitalism, but good try in putting up a made sentence to make you feel superior to other users!
Not making myself feel superior at all.
Im making a point that Paradox are selling a form of entertainment for profit. In doing so they make parts of the expansion desirable enough to purchase it.
You either decide thats worth buying, or you don't.
Or you decide it is and do
Or you decide it is and save up to buy it.
Those are your options. No business, or person or anybody owes you a single free thing in this world (although technically Pdox do give away a load of free stuff in the patch) I'm sick to death of thread after thread throughout this games lifespan removed - Had a dad about the Unfairness of DLC its content or other such guff. Especially when in my opinion Paradoxs model is better tan almost all others out there.
The alternative that you want, which is to include all the great bits in the free patch is not viable from a business standpoint as people wouldn't buy the expacs.
Now you are probably going to tell me that they should then make the expacs better to make people want to buy it. They did. Thats why this thread is here.
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The main problem with this is that if Paradox make it so that throughout this gams lifespan, they swear by never alerting a single mechanic in a way that makes it much better, and therefore worth paying for, is they (using their current DLC model) would need to practically leave most of the base game untouched.
Again, there are two options here.
-Paradox's Model which means anyonee that doesnt buy the expac gets a watered down version of the new game with expac
- Old model which means if you dont buy the expac you get nothing, no further updates or patches either
THESE ARE THE OPTIONS! The one you want which is. Paradox, should include all but the most arbitary changes in the free patch isnt viable from a business stand point. I wouldnt buy any expacs if that was the case.
No model is perfect, and this applies to the current system. But from what I can see they do try and leave out game critical changes from the DLC.
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I had no problem with the DLC policy, until they decided to remove an old feature and replace it with a new one that can only be complete with the CS DLC. Nothing more than that. I have no problem with them making money out of the DLC's (or any other form they find). I've got all their DLC's (well, at least those that aren't cosmetic), including CS, but i didn't like this paywall.
Pdx is in this for the money. And it should be that way. But, it can't be an all means are acceptable to maximize your profit. And one of the highest disappointments by Pdx was that they took more than a month to react to this subject (i'm not going to elaborate on it's content). It sounded like they stayed silent for not having anything honest and smart to say about the subject.
Other than that, i hope they can make a lot of money and continue to develop this and other games for years to come. Just don't do it like in CS.
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In my humble opinion, i feel that the DLCs are great additions to the core game and with each DLC, the games like CK2 and EU IV are flesh out more.
We cannot expect game companies to continously roll out new content over the years (after release), without paying for it. In fact the DLC cost around the equivalent of 2 mc donalds meal over here. You can take it as treating them to 2 meals at mc donalds for their new content and bugfixes .
If you decide to get it during steam sales, to be honest it is even cheaper, equivalent to only the price of one burger and one coke without the fries.
I guess some people are upset over the DLC policy as they feel they ought to have everything at launch. However realistically there is no end to expanding a game and a line had to be drawn at some point for the core game to be released and additional content to be added later.
The main concern therefore should not be whether DLCs are right or wrong for games but instead we have to judge whether a DLC can bring the core game experience to a whole new level of immersion. If you think paradox had did a good job like any other people who work to provide you with services in your daily lives, treat them to 2 mc donald meals and had a good chat with them here in further improving the game.
We cannot expect game companies to continously roll out new content over the years (after release), without paying for it. In fact the DLC cost around the equivalent of 2 mc donalds meal over here. You can take it as treating them to 2 meals at mc donalds for their new content and bugfixes .
If you decide to get it during steam sales, to be honest it is even cheaper, equivalent to only the price of one burger and one coke without the fries.
I guess some people are upset over the DLC policy as they feel they ought to have everything at launch. However realistically there is no end to expanding a game and a line had to be drawn at some point for the core game to be released and additional content to be added later.
The main concern therefore should not be whether DLCs are right or wrong for games but instead we have to judge whether a DLC can bring the core game experience to a whole new level of immersion. If you think paradox had did a good job like any other people who work to provide you with services in your daily lives, treat them to 2 mc donald meals and had a good chat with them here in further improving the game.
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They didn't replace an old feature. They reworked a core part of the game so that they can work with that system, as they felt they could improve the game more with it.
You didn't lose the ability to upgrade your provinces. You never had that option, except through event, which still exist in the game. In re buildings, everyone feels it the same way. Even with CS, you can't build buildings like you used to. You instead get more powerful buildings, but are limited in slots. Unless you want to spend an obscene amount of MP, you're pretty much going to end up with the same number of buildings as people without the DLC. My Siberian farmlands cost 90 MP from day 1 to upgrade a 3 dev province PER POINT of dev. Yeah, I don't care about that extra building slot at 10 dev.
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You guys that are standing with the TC pushing the page count here through the roof for not understanding the greatness of Common Sense do a lot to justify why it's so easy for others to just tell you to shut up and roll back your patch version. The comparison to a couple of value meals is apt. It directly refers to the devs being unable to work for free, and that they are asking relatively little for what they've provided us. I don't buy any of my DLC at full price, but I'll be the first to say that Art of War and Common Sense were worth full asking price.
I've always been one of the most fierce enemies of Paradox's expansion policies because of things I've seen them do before, like Rajas of India. I've hated that they will overhaul established game mechanics to punish players that enjoyed the original game, like lopsided faction systems and adventurers because: reasons. But this time, I don't see how anyone can fairly bitch. I mean, this is clearly adding a massive amount of content that everyone can use and fills the space between wars with something to do. Is it enough? No, but it's a damn good start. I'm asking you, TC - where do you want to go? Perhaps you'd like some Sunset Invasion style content? They didn't even promise the converter would work on release, so you wouldn't get your hopes up. The game even booted on launch BEFORE they took their vacations.
This is one place we should back away from pointing the pitchforks at Paradox. It's not a perfect expansion and there are some balance issues, I'm not disputing that. But this is going way overboard. They made a good call in replacing the old mechanics, and if you don't like them, then what's stopping you from going back to another patch? This doesn't even have a shadow of a cash grab. I can see why many are saying Paradox was wrong in how they divided up the content between free and paying players, but they've already said they were wrong, and this isn't anywhere near as bad as what happened with Legacy of Rome with retinues (I know, I know, I have 800 hours of CKII, sorry!)
You should be ashamed of yourself. Damn.
I've always been one of the most fierce enemies of Paradox's expansion policies because of things I've seen them do before, like Rajas of India. I've hated that they will overhaul established game mechanics to punish players that enjoyed the original game, like lopsided faction systems and adventurers because: reasons. But this time, I don't see how anyone can fairly bitch. I mean, this is clearly adding a massive amount of content that everyone can use and fills the space between wars with something to do. Is it enough? No, but it's a damn good start. I'm asking you, TC - where do you want to go? Perhaps you'd like some Sunset Invasion style content? They didn't even promise the converter would work on release, so you wouldn't get your hopes up. The game even booted on launch BEFORE they took their vacations.
This is one place we should back away from pointing the pitchforks at Paradox. It's not a perfect expansion and there are some balance issues, I'm not disputing that. But this is going way overboard. They made a good call in replacing the old mechanics, and if you don't like them, then what's stopping you from going back to another patch? This doesn't even have a shadow of a cash grab. I can see why many are saying Paradox was wrong in how they divided up the content between free and paying players, but they've already said they were wrong, and this isn't anywhere near as bad as what happened with Legacy of Rome with retinues (I know, I know, I have 800 hours of CKII, sorry!)
You should be ashamed of yourself. Damn.
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You know this how? That they didn't think they could improve it more via the change? Have you and Johan been communicating via back door diplomacy?
Also by the old model you only got 2 - 4 patches on any expansion, 1.11 reached 1.11.4. That would have been it.
TFH reached 4.02
HoD reached 3.03
1.11 had 4 patches, how many other companies releases so many patches for a single version?
You want it the way it was, play 1.11
Guess what back in the days of expansions sometimes core gameplay elements changed, but the difference was you can still play the base game now without buying the DLCs if you so choose, you get FREE development at no cost. You don't like that free development, then play something else.
Did 1.11.4 still have some bugs? Sure, but it is still very playable. Did DW5.2 have bugs, you betchaya
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Yeah, you want to see some piss poor Paradox work, look back at the multiplayer and achievement systems of DW. That was the whole selling point for me and they just abandoned them. That was a cash grab.
Honestly, most of the stuff is unrelated to CS. Clickable development is (and it is a huge sticking point apparently), but the whole gameplay changes (including the amazing fort system, new loot bar, development instead of BT, new NIs, new Buddhism,etc.) are FREE content. FREE. While the Development is a nice feature (that I never use outside of Europe because completely worthless when considering tech cost, core cost, diploannex cost, massive terrain penalties, etc.), the really amazing stuff is theocracies and subject interaction. Those features are absolute money.
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I know that the ROTW is suffering, but to me, I look at it as an example of why central and west europe had an easier time flourishing where everyone else struggled. I admit, I wouldn't want to hear that if I didn't play the major powers, and I don't have the answers on how to fix it, nor do I truly believe that Wiz will ever find the keys to unlock a solution, but I just see the expansion as much more of a plus than a negative.
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I'm sorry if you arrived to late to this discussion. All your points have long been debated and never refuted.
No it isn't. You wrote that what the guy posted wasn't true, and yet his reply was accurate (unless you have communiques from the dev team that we don't) and I listed why. For someone that tends to reply to others post with a single statement without listing any supporting evidence, it seems you just want to continue to post repeatedly about something you don't actually understand.
You said it had nothing to do with capitalism, yet it does.
You said the statement isn't true, and unless you can read minds you have no way of knowing. If they didn't think it was a better way to go, I doubt they would have spent the resources developing it.
Again they didn't replace it, it is still there to be played, 1.11.4, and last time I checked I still saw it AND older versions that I could choose to play if I deem them to be more enjoyable.
Sorry for not quoting more before, but this is part of what I was replying to.
You don't need CS to enjoy the latest patch as I didn't have CS at first and when I did get it, it's cause I like the company and was interested to see what the fuss was about. Ya know what, I still have no idea why people are upset. If you don't like it play 1.11.4 simple as that. You expect the game not to evolve... Well me personally I want it to evolve. I want it to change. If I want the perfect game for me, I'll write it, as no matter what, unless you are the designer you'll never be happy with every aspect.
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Honestly what I dislike the most is the new NIs. It's... really not fun playing as Milan or Hesse and unlocking a new NI and then going, "Oh. This is worthless to me." when it's development cost. They took something that legitimately does affect every game and changed it to work with their new mechanic that is only unlocked if you give them money.
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