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trihero1

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I see I see thanks for all the posts and stuff, really gets my brain juices going.

Although to be honest I think I'm just going to be pretty mediocre at the game : O

Out of curiosity what would you consider not so powerful race/secret tech options?

The top shelfers to me look like

celestians - ascended teacher, lots of questing
xenoplague - snowballing with the plague
heritor - snowballing with drained
psynumbra - malictors are amazing

vanguard - giving free rankups to psyfish = wtf
skakarn - water map dominance
assembly - research, cosmite which are golden tickets to victory
dvar - slice through infrastructure like a hot knife through butter
oathbound - busted from release til now. +4 cosmite/colony yes plz

amazons are probably all right on animal spawner planets, I don't hear people raving about kirko these days but maybe it's just unmined potential, syndicate are all right with noble diplomats and maybe I dunno promethean indentured infantry spam?
 

trihero1

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Thanks for all the posts lots of stuff to think about ^^;

I'm less of a min maxy player although I do enjoy the discussions.

On topic, my empire has all relics and max level (315) for quite some time now, and right now I have 45 heroes at level 20, working on my last group of 5 who are at level 16.

I have

5 psynumbra vanguards
5 promethean dvars
5 synthesis amazons
5 heritor assembly
5 voidtech oathbound
5 celestian syndicate
5 xenoplague kir'ko
5 synthesis shakarn

my current group of 5 is a celestian dvar with 4 voidtech pilots (I keep my heroes together, and I find voidtech hero skills are really at shooting up the enemy due to void bullets)

then i have sort of a leftover smattering of 5 heroes from my first foray into empire mode, a psynumbra shakarn, voidtech vanguard, celestian kirko, heritor oathbound, psynumbra syndicate.
 

coodav

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To delve into the best PVE strats, I recommend two things:

1. An understanding of meta PVP strats; and
2. An understanding of the changes made by Empire mode.

This strat would NEVER work in PVP. That said, it is a modified mid-game strat that works here because of the huge number of starting techs, and the fact that you almost never start without the techs that are essential. That said, all the combat strats are just as they were in PVP.

I started with a Celestian Sharkarn strategy, and made two modifications. First, I focused more heavily on T1 units for instant power, then go straight to T4. For more on how to work strats, go to Ninjew and Sinsling's PVP link here:


Sinsling typically went Assembly Celestian, Assembly Synthesis, or Syndicate Synthesis, but I haven't kept up quite so much since before all the real world problems. Either way, there should be some good strats in that discord page, if you dig them out. No matter what, you can probably find someone and have them talk it out if you haven't before. Then tweak it to what you normally get. I guarantee there is something for you, no matter what way you go.

I will say though, starting with some of these mods and operations... are... just... damn. Look around though and figure out what you like. I am going to go Kir'Ko here shortly and see what I can do with them. I just need a few more levels.
 

coodav

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Thanks for all the posts lots of stuff to think about ^^;

I'm less of a min maxy player although I do enjoy the discussions.

On topic, my empire has all relics and max level (315) for quite some time now, and right now I have 45 heroes at level 20, working on my last group of 5 who are at level 16.

I have

5 psynumbra vanguards
5 promethean dvars
5 synthesis amazons
5 heritor assembly
5 voidtech oathbound
5 celestian syndicate
5 xenoplague kir'ko
5 synthesis shakarn

my current group of 5 is a celestian dvar with 4 voidtech pilots (I keep my heroes together, and I find voidtech hero skills are really at shooting up the enemy due to void bullets)

then i have sort of a leftover smattering of 5 heroes from my first foray into empire mode, a psynumbra shakarn, voidtech vanguard, celestian kirko, heritor oathbound, psynumbra syndicate.
My god man, why am I telling you anything? You have everything maxed out, and that many 20's? Holy jezuz batman, what a go.

Why are your units all the same though? Don't you like exploring in this? You must, with all the game time you must have spent. And if your games go long, how did you conquer that many planets?
 

trihero1

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My games don't go that long, I try to finish by around turn 50 or so :D

I had a blast exploring every race and secret tech ^^; really enjoyed it.

Well my philosophy for sets of matching 5 is

- the commander is different than the other 4; the 4 are actually pilots because that is the only loadout choice that carries over when you recruit heroes. The main commander is just sort of whatever I feel like doing, usually not a pilot.
- I want the races to match obviously so I don't have to think about morale penalties if I'm going to war with a faction that's not my own
- sometimes, having them all the same secret tech just makes sense as with kir'ko xenoplague to spread the plague better
- having them all the same secret tech increases consistency, like I know exactly what kind of skills the next hero I recruit will be, regardless of whether its the first or fourth

But my thoughts have changed slightly over time as you notice with my last batch I'm working on, my commander is celestian and then his followers are voidtech bulwark pilots (void bullets is ridiculous for shooting through cover, especially when combined with the dvar's kinetic modulator it makes cover non-existent for the enemy lol).

I keep my heroes in one stack which might be contrary to popular wisdom but it works for me because I like concentrating the power in one stack to clear things like exploration sites, and perhaps more importantly is that heroes can switch vehicles so I have them all go into flying mode to travel then go back to good weapons for actual battles, you can't really do that if you have each hero leading her own conventional land movement troops.
 

atord/Nordos

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I like having juggernaut heroes, like 2-3, recruitable. These each head their own group and clear stuff (since its, outside of stuff like Forgotten) either a full clear or a full death.
The rest (mainly Sniper so far), I put in together with my main hero (which tends to be too low level due to me playing new races) and use that as another 'power' stack.

Just what I like doing, personally. I mainly start out with one army (replacing my native Lord with a Lord Hero ... man, that sounds so wrong), and then slowly accumulate another one, etc.
 

coodav

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I like having juggernaut heroes, like 2-3, recruitable. These each head their own group and clear stuff (since its, outside of stuff like Forgotten) either a full clear or a full death.
The rest (mainly Sniper so far), I put in together with my main hero (which tends to be too low level due to me playing new races) and use that as another 'power' stack.

Just what I like doing, personally. I mainly start out with one army (replacing my native Lord with a Lord Hero ... man, that sounds so wrong), and then slowly accumulate another one, etc.
Man, it must have taken you forever to get that done. I typically integrate a lot of heroes, as the gameplay gets them to where they need to be super-fast.

How many strats have you used? How do you pick them?

The next I will do is probably a happiness spam. I just want to see how it goes. I think there may be like 3 or 4 ways to do it. I just don't like syndicate. I may have to think of another rout.

Oh, FYI, update on that playstyle. I booted back up, and stomped player 2:

Expansion.png


Turn 44. Took way longer on the Kir'Ko than I thought. I had to take every single city from him, as he ran his hero is the middle of nowhere. How rude.

No matter. Just got ascended teacher, so this game is over. Just need those two last capitals... turn 60 win, probably. Lost a decent number of units on the last player. They had a BUNCH of tanks. I mean a flat ton. It will take maybe 8-10 turns to get critical mass for the last push.

I did capture a city that can do Sirens too. This is going to fly.
 

Sandman25DCSSS

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Even if all my heroes are of the same race, it is still a good idea to have a mod for ignoring morale penalties just in case. I had -200 morale for my own race in my last game, it happened to have 2 AI players of my own race and I had to capture a few colonies from them simultaneously.
 

coodav

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Even if all my heroes are of the same race, it is still a good idea to have a mod for ignoring morale penalties just in case. I had -200 morale for my own race in my last game, it happened to have 2 AI players of my own race and I had to capture a few colonies from them simultaneously.
This is also good if you have a serious money problem. You can keep your teams from disbanding so long as their morale is good. With the right doctrines, you don't even have to have a city. It has to be everyone, obviously, so that can be tough.
 

atord/Nordos

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Now that I think about it .... a big reason for the varying energy importance between different players may also be their use of tactical operations.
I for example try my utmost to play any baattle without using any points, and I delay researching more Tactical Points into pretty lategame (outside of rushes, where I get to it ASAP)
 

Sandman25DCSSS

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Now that I think about it .... a big reason for the varying energy importance between different players may also be their use of tactical operations.
I for example try my utmost to play any baattle without using any points, and I delay researching more Tactical Points into pretty lategame (outside of rushes, where I get to it ASAP)
I always have a way to convert energy into cosmite via drained or desolate. Also don't forget that the same techs which increase tactical points also increase number of doctrine slots and operational strength/defence. I believe those techs are ones of the best techs in the whole game and should not be delayed.
 

atord/Nordos

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Well, Doctrines yes, but I first need something useful unloccked to use it to convince me of laying off that cosmite building research :Also, it looses a lot of Urgency if you have the free Doctrine slots as a trait.
Mabe I devalue operational defense too much, but .... even in the lategame, when I researched the tree completely, I often fail to defend against 'create casus belli' and onlyy uncover the enemy that did it to me. All in all, I tend to get, depening on the amount of useful doctrines I have, Operational Efficiency I, if I need more slots I often research the top doctrine row instead....
 

Sandman25DCSSS

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Have you tried researching doctrines? I don't run for cosmite building if I can get some cosmite nodes. The more cosmite income you have, the less important cosmite building becomes. Having more tactical operation points can win you fights or at least avoid losing units (with mods!). And if you never lose units, you are not aggressive enough IMHO
 

atord/Nordos

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Well, having a Juggernaut Hero a sleader means that most fights are either full wins or full wipes. I tend to min-max my fights, so there are times where I repeat a fight 4-5 times until I finally relent and use Tactical Operations.
Additionally, the best Tactical Operations (in terms of usefulness compared to cost) still seem to be the very basic (dealing damage and staggering). As such I rarely see the need to invest into more tactical operations early game, and prefer getting specific researches out of the way first (like, armies being faster, being able to deal with hazards and, in case I play Syndicate, Wellness Center).
Doctrines I mostly postpone, too, until I can redeem the 'good' doctrines I have loaded out. Though there are cases where I want to get to 2 slots ASAP, for example when I play Vanguard and having an early redeemed Battlefield Autopsy.

Dunno, I keep running into trouble finding cosmite nodes, but I am also rather passive, I do have to admit. Still, energy naturally accumulates since I tend to field smaller armies and use fewer tactical operations ...
 

coodav

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Yeah, you might rethink the tactical operations thing. There are a lot of group buffs and nerfs that can COMPLETELY change the nature of a fight. Having a universal buff up in combat from a tactical map operation, or using that clutch kill or heal can allow you to fight over your weight so far, it is stunning. Take a look at those games by Sinsling to get an idea of this. He used them almost every major engagement, and for 60 or 80 energy, it was about the best thing you can do. Note also that if you are going to do a lot of 20 turn challenges, you need the enemy soft. They will outnumber you 1.5 or 2 to one, maybe worse.
 

Sandman25DCSSS

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I am not surprised you don't need tactical operation if you reload. I don't reload so tactical operations are extremely important to me.
 

trihero1

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Is there a link to an example video of sinsling dominating the AI with inferior forces army power wise?
 

coodav

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Yes, I believe you can see it in "Sinsling v. The World" post I made before. I think there is a link there. If I recall, he hit the enemy with these operations almost every early battle. He ran out of money and operation points later, but if that video is still up, please check it out.
 

coodav

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I don't see any pictures or vids or links in your thread.

I don't see any pictures or vids or links in your thread.
It was streamed over Discord. I thought it would be up on Youtube, but I guess that isn't guaranteed. That said, I vouch for it. That was what happened, promise. I don't know how to get you the proof though, other than my flappy gums. It did happen though.