Where are the ethinic germans in Russia?

[Belissarius]

no cutural Germans in Russia. There was a homestead program set up by Catherine the great that saw a large influx of germans into russian. These are the Germans that were allowed to return to germany under the 1939 R-M treaty, They settled in Poland. the city of Odessa had a huge german population and yet there are no germans in russia. We are not talking about an insignificant number here.

I feel that this should be addressed as it isnt a case of a tiny minority (at least not in the areas that the ethnic germans settled). Minority pops are important to the game as the social and political aspects of the game have direct effects on minority pops. Excluding them from russia removes a significant ethnic dynamic from Russia.

This being said its a minor priority change when compared to economic fixes or crashes. BUT the fact that they are missing should be brought to the attention of paradox.

 

[Grosshaus]

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120910 kind of says it all,

Errors that have little or no impact on gameplay e.g. the absence of a 5% minority or a 20% swing in the split between one minority and another are best left to user generated mods in the VIP forum. Paradox have a history of adopting player mods into the game (e.g. Mad King James' Flag Mod) and should a consensus be reached around a "better" POP mod or group of mods then this may be considered for inclusion in the official game.

 

[Belissarius]

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120910 kind of says it all,

That is exactly WHY I posted this bug odessa had an extremly large population of ethnic germans we are talking about well over a 5% minority or even 20% minority in various locations like odessa. There where 100,000s of returning germans to poland from the east under the R-M treaty of 1939. That is sugnificantly large enough to warrent action and the stock paradox answear indicates that this is a significant minority that it SHOULD be added not that it is insignificant.

Acourding to the 1926 census there were just under 393,000 ethnic germans in the ukrain alone! this doesnt even include the other areas that germans immigrated to in Russia. Now i think that such a population level is well beyond the level that paradox stock answear is refering to. I'm talking about a significant minority here.

Please dont just dismiss this as another why isnt there [blank] (very small minority) in blank country. This is a significant level. if minorities mean nothing in the game why have them at all? why not just make every PoP with in any given nation the nationality of that nation?

 

[Belissarius]

Hello? the stock answear from paradox DOESNT kinda says it all as we are talking about a minority larger than 5% in its repective locals.

 

[MegaPIMP]

1939???

You mean 1839?

 

[Derek Pullem]

That is exactly WHY I posted this bug odessa had an extremly large population of ethnic germans we are talking about well over a 5% minority or even 20% minority in various locations like odessa. There where 100,000s of returning germans to poland from the east under the R-M treaty of 1939. That is sugnificantly large enough to warrent action and the stock paradox answear indicates that this is a significant minority that it SHOULD be added not that it is insignificant.

Acourding to the 1926 census there were just under 393,000 ethnic germans in the ukrain alone! this doesnt even include the other areas that germans immigrated to in Russia. Now i think that such a population level is well beyond the level that paradox stock answear is refering to. I'm talking about a significant minority here.

Please dont just dismiss this as another why isnt there [blank] (very small minority) in blank country. This is a significant level. if minorities mean nothing in the game why have them at all? why not just make every PoP with in any given nation the nationality of that nation?

According to the same Census total population of the Ukraine was 29 million. Ergo Germans were around 1.3 % of Ukraine population. If we were to spend time on this then getting the jewish population right first would be more important as they formed about 5% of the population.

Stock answer stands. If you want to do the research please feel free to mod it.

 

[Dagfinn]

no cutural Germans in Russia. There was a homestead program set up by Catherine the great that saw a large influx of germans into russian. These are the Germans that were allowed to return to germany under the 1939 R-M treaty, They settled in Poland. the city of Odessa had a huge german population and yet there are no germans in russia. We are not talking about an insignificant number here.

I feel that this should be addressed as it isnt a case of a tiny minority (at least not in the areas that the ethnic germans settled). Minority pops are important to the game as the social and political aspects of the game have direct effects on minority pops. Excluding them from russia removes a significant ethnic dynamic from Russia.

This being said its a minor priority change when compared to economic fixes or crashes. BUT the fact that they are missing should be brought to the attention of paradox.

See theese threads

You do the research, and Hallibut will add it to his installer. No need to worry Paradox with this. let them consentrate on things we cant do ourselves...

 

[Belissarius]

According to the same Census total population of the Ukraine was 29 million. Ergo Germans were around 1.3 % of Ukraine population. If we were to spend time on this then getting the jewish population right first would be more important as they formed about 5% of the population.

Stock answer stands. If you want to do the research please feel free to mod it.

But the german minorities are not spread over the entire geographical area of the ukrain they are concentrated in areas where their populations density rised well above 5% or even 20%. If this is such a minor insignificant minority why was western poland depopulated of poles in 1929 to 1940 to make room for these returning germans? They where a significant size that they would have cause hardship on germany to assimulate them had the germans not murdered so many people and stoled their homes and goods and gave them to these returning "germans", many of which could barly speak german anymore. This is a pretty bloody important bit of european history are it explains alot of why poland was made to suffer under Nazi germany more than any other nation.

This is very lazy effort on paradox's part. They are well aware of the historical events the led to the germans migrating to Russia and also aware of the historical events for their return.

 

[Belissarius]

See theese threads

You do the research, and Hallibut will add it to his installer. No need to worry Paradox with this. let them consentrate on things we cant do ourselves...

Have to disagree with you on this. Paradox seems to be growing and in turn turning into a more "stock" gaming company. Their products are getting less "polished" in the finished details when they get published. and Hoi's release is a perfect example of paradox losing its edge. People will rush to defend paradox because they loyal and because paradox is alone in the type of games it produces. But I see the writing on wall. When they first arived on teh scene they where very interested in details like this and they made an effort to add events or change them as needed until well after they released the game . Now the game is barely been releeased and they no longer wish to deal with these details and they have said no more events for no good reason (translation is not good reason they made changes with EU and EU2 under the same conditions and made changes to events for well over a year after the games' release). This trend worries me that in a few releases we wont see a major difference from paradox and any other stock company.

 

[Belissarius]

1939???

You mean 1839?

No I mean 1939. The return of the germans happen due to the treaty between the third reich and the soviet union in 1939. But the germans migrated enmass in the 18th century under the homestead act of Catherine II (Catherine the great). So the migration of the germans happen before and the return after the time frame of the game. Of coarse this means that the germans would be in Russia during the time frame of the game.

 

[Dagfinn]

Have to disagree with you on this. ...

Well, lets agree to disasgree then...

 

[Derek Pullem]

But the german minorities are not spread over the entire geographical area of the ukrain they are concentrated in areas where their populations density rised well above 5% or even 20%. If this is such a minor insignificant minority why was western poland depopulated of poles in 1929 to 1940 to make room for these returning germans? They where a significant size that they would have cause hardship on germany to assimulate them had the germans not murdered so many people and stoled their homes and goods and gave them to these returning "germans", many of which could barly speak german anymore. This is a pretty bloody important bit of european history are it explains alot of why poland was made to suffer under Nazi germany more than any other nation.

This is very lazy effort on paradox's part. They are well aware of the historical events the led to the germans migrating to Russia and also aware of the historical events for their return.

Your post is a clear example of why its not worth our time to resolve these small issues. So the Germans in the Ukraine are approx 1.3%. Ah but they are concentrated in only a few provinces. How many provinces are in the Ukraine? 20-30? So if all the Germans in the Ukraine were concentrated into one province then in one provincethey might make 30-40% of the population.

Your desire for this element of European history to be modelled is clearly affected by personal or nationalistic issues or you would recognise that no matter how terrible the events they did not alter the course of European (or even Russian) history.

Thread closed.