When will we be getting a mod forum?

[unmerged(9313)]

For me it looks like paradox wants to make money on modders, who first buy the game, than they work non-profit and paradox wants to take advantage of their work...
for me it is just greed

I feel so... used

Though, frankly, I'm going to buy this game for the sole purpose of modding it into that game that I have always wanted, but have been denied. Paradox might profit on that, they might not. But frankly, I dont think the modders could care less. In some strange way, making a mod, though being hard work, sometimes is as rewarding or more than playing the game. In a sense, EUII and EUIII have first and foremost been engines to me, destined for tweaking and altering.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

For me it looks like paradox wants to make money on modders, who first buy the game, than they work non-profit and paradox wants to take advantage of their work...
for me it is just greed

No modder is forced to make a mod or to post a mod on this forum. You can buy the game, make a mod and play with that mod, without having to be a forum member

Also this is a Paradox forum, not a private forum and in the rules (which you agreed to when you became a member) it is clearly stated

All content posted on the message boards of Paradox is the exclusive intellectual property of Paradox. Copyright ownership resides in that content by Paradox and the Company is free to use any of the content as they wish. Anyone other than Paradox seeking to reprint, republish, or reproduce content posted on the Paradox message boards must receive the express written permission from the Webmaster of the Paradox forum in which the content was posted. By posting on the Paradox message boards you are agreeing to the above and relinquishing all copyright to the contents of the post(s) to Paradox

.

 

[rybka]

personally i dont make mod for paradox, but for players
seeing how they made a lot of things for eastern europe is rediculous, they SHOULD release correct product, now i do something for them and they use my work to make money

 

[unmerged(12303)]

That's a large part of it, yes. The same is true of the tech support forum which will only be visible to registered owners of the game. No sense spending time supporting pirates.

(There was an interesting article about this in the GalCiv fourm -- written by the lead designer iirc -- but I can't find it now. His estimate on support cost to pirates was scary! )

I can understand tech support forum off for none registered - but a pirate will be able to get the mods anyways from various sites so that point is moot (so that part can be switched on), he will wont be able play MP - so you might as well switch it on so that he sees what he is missing, same like with AARs. Doesnt hurt the company, gives a better view of things going on for newbies.

On the other hand dont know if all people that buy the game will register..

 

[vertinox]

That's a large part of it, yes. The same is true of the tech support forum which will only be visible to registered owners of the game. No sense spending time supporting pirates.

But how much are you loosing to potential customers?

Personally, I think you have to be registered to see the tech support forums and download patches, but are you really preventing piracy by blocking the mod forums and AARs?

It is like DRM which only hurts paying customers or people who follow the law. Most mods have their own websites and file hosting. Any fool with Google can hit them up to download the files.

But anyone interesting the in the game and its potential won't be able to legitimately look and see for themselves. The may decide to not buy the game.

And who knows if that means we will loose the next modders that were like Gooseman from Counterstrike? Which means as a paying customer I would loose out because the next great modders potentiality has been lost.

I know I'm pulling hairs here with this argument, but I don't think any company made a profit by hiding their products potential from its customers.

And I would like to see EU3 succeed as much as possible so it will be more fun for me (and all of us) in the long term.

 

[Sarmatia1871]

On the other hand dont know if all people that buy the game will register..

This is true (I still haven't registered my copy of Diplomacy...) - particularly if they don't know they're missing out on all this extra content.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

The AAR forums aren't locked. Everyone can see them (or should be able to).


Re the modding forums, I'm of two minds about it so I can certainly see the point of view of those who don't like the idea of them being restricted. Perhaps it's not out of the question that this could change in the future. Who knows...

 

[Strager]

But how much are you loosing to potential customers?

Personally, I think you have to be registered to see the tech support forums and download patches, but are you really preventing piracy by blocking the mod forums and AARs?

It is like DRM which only hurts paying customers or people who follow the law. Most mods have their own websites and file hosting. Any fool with Google can hit them up to download the files.

But anyone interesting the in the game and its potential won't be able to legitimately look and see for themselves. The may decide to not buy the game.

And who knows if that means we will loose the next modders that were like Gooseman from Counterstrike? Which means as a paying customer I would loose out because the next great modders potentiality has been lost.

I know I'm pulling hairs here with this argument, but I don't think any company made a profit by hiding their products potential from its customers.

And I would like to see EU3 succeed as much as possible so it will be more fun for me (and all of us) in the long term.

I also think that everyone should be able to that there IS a tech support forum, and even view the title threads - viewing the threads is where the restrictions should be - Imagine this: Say I have a...ahem...borrowed... copy of the game. I love the game but have this nasty issue that I need help with. So I log onto the Paradox forums, head on over to the tech support forum... and WOW -theres my issue in a sticky thread! woohoo! So I click on it and.... nooooooo I need to register.... well I really like this game.... whats this? A link to buy it online from Gamersgate in the restricted message? You know what - I think i'll do that. <downloads legal copy>

Will this happen often? probably not - but if even a few thousand people are influenced by this its more money in Paradox's hands that could go twords giving Johan that vacation he wants to take, giving him more rest so when he gets back he can start work on EU3:expansion !

 

[Inferis]

All this discussion about a public Mod Forum attracting potential customers is useless.
People who don't know the game (i.e. people who didn't know Paradox until they heard of EU3) won't make their decision (to buy the game) based the visiblility of a mod forum (and thus on what mods are available). I know nobody who has bought a game "because it was moddable and a lot of mods exist".

 

[Strager]

All this discussion about a public Mod Forum attracting potential customers is useless.
People who don't know the game (i.e. people who didn't know Paradox until they heard of EU3) won't make their decision (to buy the game) based the visiblility of a mod forum (and thus on what mods are available). I know nobody who has bought a game "because it was moddable and a lot of mods exist".

I have - Rome Total War being one example

 

[vertinox]

The AAR forums aren't locked. Everyone can see them (or should be able to).


Re the modding forums, I'm of two minds about it so I can certainly see the point of view of those who don't like the idea of them being restricted. Perhaps it's not out of the question that this could change in the future. Who knows...

Whoops. I thought the AAR was locked out too due to only the 3 ones in there.

Either way it is up to Paradox on this policy and I will most likely pick up a copy when it arrives in the stores locally just to read the mod forums (and maybe play if I can get my room mate to fix their computer or I get a new one other than my PPC mac).

 

[unmerged(6777)]

All this discussion about a public Mod Forum attracting potential customers is useless.
People who don't know the game (i.e. people who didn't know Paradox until they heard of EU3) won't make their decision (to buy the game) based the visiblility of a mod forum (and thus on what mods are available). I know nobody who has bought a game "because it was moddable and a lot of mods exist".

I have as well. Some of the Oblivion reviews suggested that it was lacking in content and wouldn't be all that worthwhile buying until the modding community had sunk their teeth into it. I know of a number of people who subsequently waited a while before buying (although admittedly most of the real hard-core Oblivion mods are hosted and downloaded from other sites). That's part of the reason I have mixed emotions about PI's decision.

 

[vertinox]

I know nobody who has bought a game "because it was moddable and a lot of mods exist".

Counter Strike? Day of Defeat?

 

[jpezli]

All this discussion about a public Mod Forum attracting potential customers is useless.
People who don't know the game (i.e. people who didn't know Paradox until they heard of EU3) won't make their decision (to buy the game) based the visiblility of a mod forum (and thus on what mods are available). I know nobody who has bought a game "because it was moddable and a lot of mods exist".

There have been a lot of games that I have bought because of moddability, starting from Quake. I bought HoI 1 and 2 and later Victoria because of the forums. I honestly thought that Diplomacy was not moddable because I cannot see any subforums other than AAR so I haven't even considered buying that one.

 

[Inferis]

I have as well. Some of the Oblivion reviews suggested that it was lacking in content and wouldn't be all that worthwhile buying until the modding community had sunk their teeth into it. I know of a number of people who subsequently waited a while before buying (although admittedly most of the real hard-core Oblivion mods are hosted and downloaded from other sites). That's part of the reason I have mixed emotions about PI's decision.

Well, okay then. o

 

[Strager]

There have been a lot of games that I have bought because of moddability, starting from Quake. I bought HoI 1 and 2 and later Victoria because of the forums. I honestly thought that Diplomacy was not moddable because I cannot see any subforums other than AAR so I haven't even considered buying that one.

I don't even know what Diplomacy IS.... I originally learned about EU2 due to it's mod community, and decided to get HoI2D due to mods....

I completely agree with this statement now that I think about it - the mod community really is what makes games like this known. -- EU3 will be a little more mainstream, but all the more reason to keep interest in the game.

 

[Spooky]

There have been a lot of games that I have bought because of moddability, starting from Quake. I bought HoI 1 and 2 and later Victoria because of the forums. I honestly thought that Diplomacy was not moddable because I cannot see any subforums other than AAR so I haven't even considered buying that one.

Counter Strike? Day of Defeat?

I agree

I bought Civ 4 and MTW 2 because I know modders were going to improve them.

To be honest, to hide the mod forum from the unregistered "forumers" is a complete non-sense - mods are the BEST possible ads for a game - and since there is no EU fansite like those existing for RTW/MTW or Civ 4, a good EU3 mod will not be known outside the existing EU community and so will not bring any additional sales to Paradox.

Discloser : I have bought all the EU/HOI/CK/Vicky games and I will buy EU3 tonight

 

[Golwar]

I also think that everyone should be able to that there IS a tech support forum, and even view the title threads - viewing the threads is where the restrictions should be - Imagine this: Say I have a...ahem...borrowed... copy of the game. I love the game but have this nasty issue that I need help with. So I log onto the Paradox forums, head on over to the tech support forum... and WOW -theres my issue in a sticky thread! woohoo! So I click on it and.... nooooooo I need to register.... well I really like this game.... whats this? A link to buy it online from Gamersgate in the restricted message? You know what - I think i'll do that. <downloads legal copy>

Will this happen often? probably not - but if even a few thousand people are influenced by this its more money in Paradox's hands that could go twords giving Johan that vacation he wants to take, giving him more rest so when he gets back he can start work on EU3:expansion !

I agree, it should be possible to see what possibilites lay out there just before your nose. It doesn't have to be that they can read the threadtitels, just show the names of the subforums and the amount of threads & postings.

@ Inferis
Others already answered you, but I wanna add that I buy 70% of my games because they have such a huge and promising mod-community.

 

[Brasidas]

The AAR forums aren't locked. Everyone can see them (or should be able to).


Re the modding forums, I'm of two minds about it so I can certainly see the point of view of those who don't like the idea of them being restricted. Perhaps it's not out of the question that this could change in the future. Who knows...

I was the one who originally brought up the subject of locked AAR fora earlier in the thread, but I did so within the context of Diplomacy's locked fora when the game was first released. When we protested the locking of the AAR forum, there was zero point in bringing up the mod forum along with the AAR forum, as the game wasn't really moddable.

 

[unmerged(6777)]

I was the one who originally brought up the subject of locked AAR fora earlier in the thread, but I did so within the context of Diplomacy's locked fora when the game was first released. When we protested the locking of the AAR forum, there was zero point in bringing up the mod forum along with the AAR forum, as the game wasn't really moddable.

Ah. Understandable.

IMO the AAR forums are actually even more of a "seller" of games for Paradox than the mod forums -- though I don't belittle the value of those either. I do, however, understand the reasoning behind making them restricted to registered users.

Piracy is rampant in the games industry and as many people have correctly pointed out, there's really not much you can do to prevent it. You can, of course, implement protection schemes which eventually (usually quickly) get broken, but almost all of these end up inconveniencing legitimate customers at least as much as they inconvenience the pirates. As such, Paradox is approaching it from a "value added" sort of viewpoint where easy access to such things as tech support, patches, etc is only available if you register the game.

Registration takes all of 10-20 seconds to achieve and after that you have no further hassles for the entire lifetime of the game. No need to carry a CD around with you or enter a pass code to play, or anything like that. It's a tiny requirement that is also a very useful one (to Paradox) because it's *very* hard for a pirate to bypass. Sure...pirates will manage to do so anyway, but it will be much harder and far less convenient because the burden of after sales support (patches, etc.) falls on them to deal with.

I guess there may be no perfect solution, but I'll certainly be interested to see how this approach ends up panning out.