Ok.
I personnally still don't see any problem at all with 7k planes over southern England.
You still have to convice me (if you like) that a change is needed. So far I don't think so.
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Ok.
I personnally still don't see any problem at all with 7k planes over southern England.
You still have to convice me (if you like) that a change is needed. So far I don't think so.
How about the fact they were all fighters, and during the entire production run of Spitfires throughout all of the commonwealth/empire it was 20,000 planes and this is through 1947. There's no realistic way to have 7000 fighters in active combat formations with any level of sensible safety precautions or useful training of the pilots. And then there's losses due to accidents, aerial combat, enemy bombing actions.
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Hoi4 is a WW2 sandbox. It's not a simulator.
Most mechanics in HOI4 are not realistic but reasonable abstractions.
Example: I can switch my production from 150 MILs on Tanks to 150 MILs on Planes in 1 hour. The planes will be produced with low efficiency, but they will be produced from that hour on. Completely unrealistic, because you'd have to build or reamp the factorys first.
So we don't have to ask: "Is that mechanic realistic" but: "Is this mechanic a reasonable abstraction of the reality, that is realistic enough, easy to use and fun to play."
It's fine for me that the limit of planes in the air is the available airports in range. The is realistic enough for me and I'm not convinced that more limits would provide more fun.
And if one nation has double the planes then another nation i think this should be noticeable even if the fight is only in 1 airzone.
Most mechanics in HOI4 are not realistic but reasonable abstractions.
Example: I can switch my production from 150 MILs on Tanks to 150 MILs on Planes in 1 hour. The planes will be produced with low efficiency, but they will be produced from that hour on. Completely unrealistic, because you'd have to build or reamp the factorys first.
So we don't have to ask: "Is that mechanic realistic" but: "Is this mechanic a reasonable abstraction of the reality, that is realistic enough, easy to use and fun to play."
It's fine for me that the limit of planes in the air is the available airports in range. The is realistic enough for me and I'm not convinced that more limits would provide more fun.
And if one nation has double the planes then another nation i think this should be noticeable even if the fight is only in 1 airzone.
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Why is thousands air planes a problem? As far as I understand, D-day and Market Garden used over 1k transport planes for paradrops on first day. Bombers, fighter cover and reconnasence will probably put the figure much higher. Note that this is one day, over 1 in game air zone.
Aircraft reliability is too high, but production numbers are too low, as you tested yourself. You would need >1k MIC on planes to build what US built in 1944.
In 1943 and 1944 USA built 127k combat Aircrafts. How many do you think should be on active duty at any given moment?
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I give up, this is clearly labeled a strategy simulation game on the Steam page, they have stacked the odds against the axis from launch. The deployment numbers from launch have been ludicrous and nothing has been done. It needs fixed and all of you that refuse to see this don't matter to me. I'm done arguing this.
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LOL, what?
In most of the last 4 years since release Germany was winning WW2, if the player wasn't stopping it.
In HOI4 Germany is much stronger than it was in reality to have a game.
I respectfully disagree. Deployment numbers are fine for me.
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How hard is it to defeat Britain and the Soviet Union in the current game? Starving Britain of fuel isn't difficult. Killing the RAF isn't too hard. The fact that Sea Lion is even possible points towards the Axis being given a real chance at winning.
I did ask what year you were talking about. I don't think I've ever see 7000 planes over Britain in 1940. If you wait to attack Britain until 1948, then you might need to be worried about the number of planes they can put into the sky.
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They stacked the odds against axis by having German economy being on parity with USA, not 1/4 IRL, German production capabilities greater than Soviet union (IRL less then half in many categories), having reasonably competent Italy, and Japan that actually wins in China long before attacking the allies. Yes, poor Axis.
100MIC with 1941 tech would produce 9k fighters. With LL, 1943 tech and factory counts, 7k planes over Britain is very little. In Expert AI, i`ve seen 14k over England in 1942, once US entered.
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Modded HOI4. Not vanilla.
I assume we are talking about vanilla HOI4, since it wouldn't make sense to complain about the game if a modded AI was putting thousands of planes up.
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The allies in this game are nerfed considerably compared to their historical capacity.
US industry in particular isn't anywhere near where it should be if this game were to "stack the odds against the axis". It has deliberately been balanced in a way where the Axis has a much better shot at victory than they had in the real war.
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Um, well, alright, My vanilla game with Finland.
February 1942
Germany has 5k fighters and 1.5k CAS - probably a bit more than usual due to Sovet being blooded up by me, so Barbarossa is already over.
UK: 6.4k Fighters, 1.8k CAS
Of course the game is totally unrealistic. Germany being able to pull off Operation Sealion succesfully, or actually defeating the Sovjet Union proves that. Or Japan actually winning in China. You need to shift the balance to the Axis to keep it interesting. I'm definetly not the best crack in this game, but I manage to do things like that.
But in the long run the axis is the weaker side - you have to strike quickly and decisively and not get caught in a war of attrition, or the Allies will outproduce you.
If the game is too hard for you right now you could always try to reduce the difficulty which would give you an edge. There's no shame in that.
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Most of the time yes. At the extreme end, there isn't the airspace for large numbers of aircraft to operate, but that's not the main point.
My thinking was that the command points mechanism from Stellaris, could model pilot numbers & quality somewhat. Like, it is some number that takes into account population, education level, etc. of aircrew, to produce a number that represents how many aircraft can be operational simultaneously. Going over that number, means that the recruitment standards and/or training length is lowered, with some kind of penalty as a result.
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100 MIC will produce 9k LF2 in a year at 1941 tech level. As Germany, you can hit those production numbers in 1940. If you play well, you should be able to produce 15-18k fighters/year by the time Barbarossa hits.
For 1945 - you will run out of aluminium in Eurasia and frankly wouldn`t care how may tens of thousands of fighters/year you can build, usually it`s beneficial to ignore fighters altogether after 1943.
You example isn`t horrifically unrealistic, considering that the most important part of both tank and fighter is an engine. It wasn`t unusual to even use downgraded aircraft engine model in tanks. So, a tank factory already has ability to build engine, and MGs/Autocannons and radios, can handle all steel elements. Only aluminium or wood and various fly control instruments have to be added.
It`s wasteful, but it will take a year or more to gain efficiency, so not too terrible for wartime retooling, considering many plants were created from ground up in that amount of time.
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some kind of pilots/aircrew limitation might also help with the situations I find, where some major combatants are out of fuel before the war really gets started.
Like, it's no fun in the Pacific, when it transpires that AI Japan was completely out of fuel for ships & aircraft by the middle of 1942.
Different fuel grades & reservoirs for them ? I dunno. Fuel oil for ships, diesel & gasoline for ground vehicles, low & high grade aviation spirit for planes. And then strategic reasons to use certain aircraft over others e.g. Jets using lower grade cheaper fuel, or to develop particular tanks instead of others. But maybe that's too fiddly for the scale of HOI4.
Like, it's no fun in the Pacific, when it transpires that AI Japan was completely out of fuel for ships & aircraft by the middle of 1942.
Different fuel grades & reservoirs for them ? I dunno. Fuel oil for ships, diesel & gasoline for ground vehicles, low & high grade aviation spirit for planes. And then strategic reasons to use certain aircraft over others e.g. Jets using lower grade cheaper fuel, or to develop particular tanks instead of others. But maybe that's too fiddly for the scale of HOI4.
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Instead of complicating the game more it would be better to improve the AI so it will focus on building Synt Plants and conquering oil producing states if it is an oil weak country.
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It's not, really. Germany is this strong because the game needs it to be this strong to challenge any player who opposes it. It wouldn't be a whole lot of fun to play against Germany if Germany wasn't much of threat to its AI enemies, much less AI enemies and the player. It is purely done for balance reasons. The whole game would collapse if Germany wasn't powerful under AI control.
It's not that much of an issue the other way round, because Germany is facing multiple large enemies. The only thing one really needs to look out for, is not to make the Soviets too much of a walkover.
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I disagree with the general idea of decreasing fighter numbers, the axis built almost 100k fighters and the United Nations 160k, if you can't put those to fight then the fighter count at 1 point in time will be even higher then it is now.
But they could make the AI UK put at least 5 mils into medium tanks instead of fighters, it might make North Africa a challenge instead of the easy walk it is now.
But they could make the AI UK put at least 5 mils into medium tanks instead of fighters, it might make North Africa a challenge instead of the easy walk it is now.
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Snarky answer: just shoot down enough until they can't field 7000 anymore.
More constructive answer: submarine blockade --> UK quickly runs out of fuel, rubber and aluminum --> no more planes
More constructive answer: submarine blockade --> UK quickly runs out of fuel, rubber and aluminum --> no more planes
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